Smart ADHD Stories: Kerry Jordan

[1:12] These are real conversations, real stories from smart ADHDers. We won't be sugarcoating, but we'll be looking to the future where there's always hope, and we'll be sharing smart strategies along the way. These episodes will be much longer because we just need time to get real and allow us to tell those stories.

[1:34] This episode is the first Smart ADHD Story episode and I had such an amazing time speaking with Kerry. She, I think this is actually the only the second time we've spoken to each other but it already feels like we've known each other for years. She was so gracious and honest and I hope you get as much from this conversation as I did.

[1:57] I've not edited this really at all. There's a few little tiny little edits, but on the whole what i'm trying to do with these episodes is to keep them really raw and real uh, and so if you can ignore any of the ums and the uhs and stumblings over words That's kind of sometimes the way our brains work Now, remember, we're not experts.

[2:17] And so if you've been affected by anything that we talk about in this episode, don't cope alone. It's always best to contact a medical professional where you are and seek professional help. But we would love to hear from you. So. Do get in touch by sending me an email to Ian at smartadhd. me. So Kerry Jordan is a professional photographer.

[2:42] She helps entrepreneurs engage, or I should say pet, I can't even say this, petrepreneurs. There you go, I love that. Petropreneurs engage their ideal audience by creating stunning commercial photography and content. And she can be found at her website, furandfables. com. So, enough of me gibbering. Let's get on with the episode right now.

[3:05] Hello, Kerry, welcome to the smart ADHD podcast. You are my first guest in this format. We've had some expert guests on, but you are my first guinea pig. So welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?

[3:18] Kerry: Yeah, I'm good. I'm quite glad that I'm the first because I've got nobody else to compare to, so I feel quite so bad. Apart from the excellent, professional guest that you had on, who does sound very smart.

[3:31] Ian: Yeah No, Tamara has been amazing. And she's, been Because I, had a bit of imposter syndrome and then I realized I don't need to be an expert, we can share our journey. And that's what this episode is about. These are telling the story are stories of smart ADHD creators, business owners, entrepreneurs, And I don't know about you, but sometimes I think I do struggle with the word smart because I I do question my own intelligence, but we can maybe get into that because I'm sure that affects a lot.

[4:07] I've spoken to a lot of people, very smart people with ADHD and they're all the same. So tell us a little bit about, before we get stuck in, Tell us who you are, your, what, it is you do business wise and whereabouts you are located?

[4:26] Kerry: Okay, my name's Kerry Jordan. I'm 46, I think. I, I might have to go back and check that. I am a commercial pet photographer, which basically means I'm a visual storyteller for pet brands, currently in the UK, but hoping for worldwide domination. And I live in West Cumbria. So if anybody doesn't know that, Like I'm 10 minutes from the edge of the Lake District, which is absolutely beautiful.

[4:59] And I moved here three years ago from West Sussex. So a fair bit of distance and a fair bit of temperature change

[5:07] Ian: It's a, beautiful part of the world. it really is. so let's go back to the beginning, And, or, before we get back to the beginning, let's, I want to ask you the question. When did you first realize you had ADHD?

[5:26] Kerry: I guess I've always felt that was different. I've always felt like I wasn't like everybody else, but it was only last year that I found out that I could possibly have ADHD. I've been doing a lot of research about different mental states. Because I was trying to figure out why I felt so differently at the time.

[5:50] And I'd looked into ADHD, but this was maybe four or five years ago, and the lists that were coming up were very typical of, male ADHD, and particularly the younger generation. So it was hyperactivity and, there was a list of things that I just wasn't, that I was like, this isn't me, so I disregarded it.

[6:10] And then, of all places, I was looking at a TikTok And I saw a video of a woman talking about her and it was a very humorous way talking about her ADHD challenge. But I didn't realize that's what it was at the time. I just saw the video and I was like, oh, that's me. She's just described me. So I went through and I flicked through some more and I just started crying.

[6:35] Because it was the first time that somebody described what I was going through, and it just felt like such a relief. And so I think that was pretty much a year ago around now. And so I looked into what I could do, and I heard about the sort of diagnosis process and in typical style went into what I now know is hyperfocus.

[7:01] And I basically made a diary of everything that affects me on a day to day basis, which could come under the ADHD banner and took it to my doctors. And she was like, okay, I'm not an expert, but it does seem that this is the way. And she referred me by the right to choose. instead of going by the NHS route, you get, diagnosed via a private practice under the NHS banner.

[7:31] And last, I think it was last October, November, I can't remember which one, but my diagnosis came through as combined type ADHD. And, It was, yeah, it was mind blowing. I felt such a sense of relief that I wasn't this complete, I am a little bit of a complete weirdo, but at least I had my tribe.

[7:57] But the thoughts that I were having weren't like completely off the scale. It was like people, there were other people like this out there.

[8:05] Ian: Yeah.

[8:06] that's, it's a huge relief for so many people and I can very much identify and empathize with what you're saying. And I just want to say also, because we have listeners all around the world, so the way that you will, go down the diagnosis and assessment route will be different. when we're talking about here in the UK, that there's this fantastic thing called right to choose.

[8:28] but the first thing to do is to speak to, medical professional in your country. we're not experts. And if you're struggling, that's something I should probably should have said at the beginning, but just to say, but that, that sounds like you, you've had a real, I can't believe that's a year ago.

[8:49] Cause that, that, and yeah, you've obviously hyper focused you, you got into the, you wrote everything down and you listed it all. that's something that I did. And I think that is such a helpful thing to do because Did you feel, as in part of that process, did you feel an element of, I don't know whether it's imposter syndrome, but there's, for me, I had this kind of worry, maybe it isn't ADHD, maybe I am a lost cause and it's something else, and I was a little bit worried, and when the ADHD diagnosis came back, and it was combined type with me, it was a big relief in, many respects, but was there an element of concern and worry with you?

[9:33] Kerry: Yeah, absolutely. I think, and I don't know if this is an ADHD thing, but, I carry on reading some of the symptoms, and I'd be like, that's not me, so does that mean I don't have ADHD, or I don't have it to that extent, so does that mean it's not ADHD? And I think listing it down for me, because the list was extensive, was a way of almost saying, you're not being paranoid.

[10:02] This is, something that, and I think a lot of people with ADHD will come across people go, everybody's got a bit of ADHD. Everybody goes through that. Everybody does that occasionally. And it's the fact that what I realized is that it's not occasional. These are things that happen on a day to day basis.

[10:19] Okay. And they, for me personally, they affected me quite negatively, quite a lot, and I struggled. I think making that list really helped me overcome that kind of And it's almost like a sense of, I don't want to be that person who's, a drama queen. It's I don't want to be a drama queen.

[10:42] it's I You know, have I really got ADHD? And having that list in front of me almost gave me validation. It was like, no, this is quite an extensive list of the things that I have to struggle with. yeah, there was an element of imposter syndrome type.

[11:00] Ian: Yeah. And I wonder whether this affects people from different generations in different ways. we're similar age, generation X, I assume you are as well,

[11:12] kind of,

[11:13] Kerry: I never,

[11:14] Ian: similar

[11:14] Kerry: remember what they all are.

[11:16] I

[11:16] Ian: it is, I'm not that we're trying to put people into boxes, but, yeah, I, I think we probably grew up with ADHD being seen as this like naughty boys disease.

[11:28] And, it is certainly the whole. being diagnosed with combined type, you think, where's the hyperactivity? It's not all but it, but then it's the realization. It's not always physical as, as well. and, then the other thing you mentioned, the, this is the, thing that a lot of people say to, to us or, and often it's, that negative voice in our heads.

[11:46] It's not necessarily what p other people say. It's our voice. And the head say, surely everyone has a DHD then, and, I remember watching a video. Favorite, YouTuber who talks about ADHD is Rick Green. He's a great guy. And he's, he says, in a sense, that's right. Everyone has a little bit of ADHD, but everyone has height.

[12:10] It's it is a scale. And so with ADHD, the thing is Yes, maybe everyone procrastinates, but like the level of procrastination that someone with ADHD has, or if you're forgetting your keys, like, how often do you forget your keys? Is it like once a week or is it like three times a day? and so we can dig into some, of that, in our, conversation today, but let's, turn back the clock.

[12:38] So that was a year ago that you realized, and you got this official diagnosis. But, and you mentioned that you've always thought you were different. I speak to so many people with ADHD who feel that. I felt that. I thought, I don't know. I don't know what I thought about myself. Let's go back to when you were younger.

[13:07] when, do you think, looking back, that ADHD first became a part of your story?

[13:12] Kerry: as long as I can remember, I felt like a little bit of an outcast. So I, I did actually, I suffered trauma quite young, so I don't know if that didn't help, obviously. but I wasn't popular at school. I was the girl who's, stood in the corner. I read a lot, that was my outlet.

[13:35] So I'd be sat in the library when people were out, like playing games and things like that. I never felt And it's weird because it's not like I feel like I'm a, an unconfident person, but I found talking to people difficult. My mum said that I was always somebody who talks to adults much better than I did to people my age.

[13:59] So even at, knee high to a grasshopper, I was, chatting away to my elders. But when it came to people my age, when I was at junior school and secondary school, I really struggled. and Weirdly, I got on with guys much better because I found them much simpler to talk to. There was no, there was, and I think maybe that's because my, brain was so active that when I was around, like my fellow girlfriends, I was always, questioning, the motives around and because there's, as a teenage girl, there's so much drama and I just couldn't handle it.

[14:40] some of my closest friends, with, boys, and it was just like, we'd play on computer games and we'd go climbing trees and things. So I think it was, there was, always a difference. But I think there were things like, I was, I was disruptive. I challenged authority quite often.

[15:05] And I think I, even though I had high expectations of being head girl, I had far too much, many detentions for that. So there was always that element of, I think, just a restlessness, almost. Almost it was. I got bored very easily, and things like that, so I do remember, yeah, getting detention a lot. skipping school, but still wanting to have good grades, but struggling with the grades, and my teacher saying that I, was bright, but I couldn't study.

[15:40] So all those things, now with hindsight, I'm like, okay, this is all making sense now. And then, as I got older, not being able to keep a job, I was never fired, I left, I got bored, and I had real problems with money, so I got into quite a lot of debt doing payday checks, and because, maybe because I didn't have an authority to figure around often, those were the things that I, they could have gone a lot worse, I could have been in a way, worse situation than I was.

[16:17] Considering the impulse control that I had. those things now, I look back, and I try not to beat myself up about because at the time, I was like, why am I like this? why do I have to do this? it was always there.

[16:34] Ian: Yeah, no, that's really interesting. And I think when we look back at our lives, there is that temptation sometimes to give into that kind of maybe regrets, the what if question. and I think that's, quite common for people who are diagnosed later, on, in their forties, fifties and beyond.

[16:58] that's not what, that's not what we're trying to do here. We're trying to look back into the past and, trying to understand why things, Maybe were a struggle. And there's a lot of things that you were saying there that that, were so interesting that, the fact that you tended to get on better with boys and, and, I, tended to get on better with girls actually, which is really interesting.

[17:24] And I, don't really understand. I think, so you talked about emotions in there and one of the, big things with A DHD people is emotional dysregulation. And I think I. Just felt I could be a bit more myself with girls, which seems a bit weird, but I just felt I could be I didn't have to pretend, which was a lot more a lot simpler.

[17:49] So I just interested, for you, like what was going on at school? You had, you were with your friendships and the way you were interacting with people. And also you mentioned, that your teachers said you were smart, but you're also getting detentions as well. and I'm laughing because, yeah, a similar story with me.

[18:12] But I remember when I got a detention, I was absolutely distraught. I was so, upset that I got my first detention. And, so what was going on in your head in those early years?

[18:23] Kerry: It was Yeah, it's bizarre because the thing with the boys was, very similar. It was, I felt much more myself, around like my male friends than I did my female friends. And I think with the female friends, it's something that becomes much more prevalent as you get older, you start masking.

[18:45] So it's like you start to try and emulate people. So with my female friends, I was trying to be like them, but I wasn't, so I wasn't a girly girl. when I first tried makeup, I was like, oh my god, it weird. looks I didn't want to go, clothes shopping. I was the one that was climbing the trees, riding my bike around the block and things like that.

[19:07] So when I was around the females, it was more like I felt like I had to be somebody else. and the school thing, I, I loved learning. And so I was, and still am, a nerd. I love learning things, but it had to be things that, captured my attention. And I think when I, for example, physics, hated physics, loved biology.

[19:35] So in physics, when your not, engaged in something and then your grades fail, then you start to think, I'm obviously not smart, even though it's, different in other areas. And you start to get that message quite young. So it was those kinds of things. And the emotion wise, I think the emotional dysregulation came after puberty.

[20:02] so I don't think I was too bad back then. But, yeah, as soon as I hit my teenage years, I didn't know what to do with myself, and I was diagnosed with depression at 15, and put on Prozac at 16, so that kind of tells you how emotionally disrupted I felt inside, and of course I was misdiagnosed, because it wasn't depression, so it didn't do anything, so again, it made you feel strange, and why am I like this kind of thing, Yeah, the emotion side, I think it was fairly stable in that until I hit my, teenage years.

[20:40] Ian: Yeah, now that's, I hear that so often that women and girls in particular do get misdiagnosed with depression and it can be anxiety as well. although those, Depression and anxiety can be part of that experience with ADHD. I definitely really struggled with depression at school, but I think if it had been diagnosed as depression, I don't think that would have been the right way to treat it.

[21:12] And so I'd be interested for you, how did that, how did that depression, what, so was it depression or do you now, how do you look at it now that depression through the ADHD lens that you now know, how did it manifest itself? Because I speak to quite a few people about this, and everyone experiences a different level and different way of depression.

[21:38] Kerry: So I can't remember a huge amount about back then, but what I do know now through the research I've done looking into it is that my depression, which is still something that happens now, isn't just depression, it's caused by the ADHD and the way that my ADHD manifests. So it could be that was similar when I was growing up, where I, didn't know how to control my emotions.

[22:09] And so I would start having emotional outbursts, which I knew weren't societally correct. So I would start, keeping them in, which is the worst thing that you could possibly do. But I was a teenager, I didn't understand. now I realize because I've got this in a dialogue, which it can be really debilitating sometimes, that's what causes my depression because I will start this conversation.

[22:39] I will start this scenario in my head and it's never positive, which is a real bummer.

[22:45] It's never, I'm going to win this amazing award. It's more like this person said this. So this means this, and what happens if this happens, and then I start to go downwards, and then that's when the depression hits. from what I've read, and people I've spoken to, Sometimes the way that ADHD manifests, that can lead then to the depression, so it's not a constant, but it is there.

[23:09] Ian: yeah. No, that's interesting. and, it's that, it is that, inner dialogue. you probably, everyone

[23:17] Kerry: Apparently

[23:18] Ian: and

[23:20] Kerry: not.

[23:21] Ian: I've but not to the extent I would say as people with ADHD and it's constantly there. That's, the thing. yeah, that's, really interesting.

[23:34] And so you said that you suppressed that, I think. Why do you think you did that? Why did you cause again, I think that's a common thing. I did the same thing. I suppressed the emotions. Is that, kind of What's the word I'm looking for? like a safety, thing.

[23:55] You're trying to

[23:57] Kerry: I think, and I don't know if this is, I've only just thought of this, but maybe it's something that people with ADHD come across, is you start to become very self aware. So you recognize when whatever you're doing is not acceptable to other people. emotional outbursts, crying or, getting upset over various things. You can see, and you do pick up on the reactions of other people, and I don't know if this is an ADHD thing, but then you don't want to make people feel uncomfortable, so that's when you start to repress those, and you become very aware then of how you are acting around people and how you manifest your emotions around them. So that's, yeah, that's how I started doing it. I started recognizing the fact that this wasn't, something that people wanted me to do. So I started to, hide it basically.

[25:05] Ian: Yeah. And I think there's, we tend to be very intuitive people as well. So we pick up on these little minor kind of micro things that are going on and Often, I think we're right, but there's then there's that doubt. You're like, Oh, maybe I'm maybe it's me. The problem is always me. so that's really interesting.

[25:26] So when you got into the later years at school into sixth form, so this is like age 16, 17, 18, and just for international school. Yeah. Vera who don't understand the weird, naming system we have here in the uk, did, how, were things for you? So did you, become, do you, did, were you, did you become better at masking?

[25:49] Did you become more confident? Did things get better, get worse? what, how did you get on in those later years at school?

[25:58] Kerry: Weirdly, and I'm not sure where this came from, I definitely got more confident, or maybe it was a false confidence. I think as soon as you start masking yourself and you're starting to get accepted more as this other person, that confidence is gone. to grow. It's like I'm doing the right things. I'm, I'm becoming this person that other people want to be around.

[26:23] So I started to get a little bit more popular as I started to get older, was a revelation to me because I've not been until then. And I was actually classed as homeless at the age of 15 because I was in a woman's hostel, and so I had no fixed abode. And somehow I managed to get through my GCSEs, and I was introduced to, going to clubbing quite early.

[26:51] And the music element just was awesome because it was, again, it was a confidence boost. I loved dancing and going out. And I think, going out and having a drink and things like that, Which was really bad because again, it gave me this false confidence. it wasn't me. It's especially when you're going out and you're having a drink, it's this is what gave me the confidence to talk to people.

[27:18] so yeah, there was a confidence gain for sure. But there were, when you're suppressing, it's going to overspill. And so there was a lot of overspill. There were a lot of, there was a lot of, not tantrums, but outbursts. And that would again, set me back because it's like, why am I like this?

[27:40] Why can't I keep tempo? Why? Why am I so emotional about things? So it was a little bit up and down, but my confidence definitely grew. And I think, again, from the learnings that I've done, I, it's a constant dopamine chaser. So it's like I pushed myself to do things. I pushed myself to, ask out boys that were totally out of my league and, things like that, because it was like that energy spark.

[28:08] but I, again, same as jobs, didn't keep a relationship very long. Got bored, or I would have a negative dialogue in my head and based on absolutely no facts would dump them based on my negative dialogue. Because it was like, they're going to do it anyway, so I might as well get in there first.

[28:28] Ian: yeah. Yeah. that's, it's, it's, it's, it sounds, great until you start to think about the negative voice and all that kind of stuff. And I had the, I think the opposite problem. I just was so anxious about being rejected that I just couldn't ask any girls out. I just, I was just, I don't think of self esteem.

[28:52] So I think it can manifest itself in different ways. And that's really interesting that you were using asking boys out as a kind of a dopamine injection, which is fascinating. So and you mentioned going out for a drink and stuff like that. A lot of what I realized is how much before being diagnosed, we tend to self medicate on these things.

[29:19] And I suppose like that was what you were doing in a way. So you weren't getting enough dopamine. So you were finding ways to inject yourself with dopamine in a way. So how much, looking back, how much of that was involved in, your early

[29:35] Kerry: Oh, a lot. And again, it's only because I've been doing a lot of research and self development recently that I've realized that it's been a quite a crutch. and I actually decided to have three months. of no alcohol, which was hard. when I was working, it was, I masked it again because it was a very much work hard, play hard culture.

[30:06] So it's everybody's doing it, so it's fine. And, yeah, it's now I'm like, at least I know that this is something that's fairly recurrent in people with ADHD is they do self medicate in some way. It's helped me make that association in my brain to help me bring that down and to dissect it and to not make me like a slave to it anymore.

[30:35] But yeah, definitely at work, I would be the first one there, after work, having drinks, rolling in at two o'clock in the morning because I was 19 and you could still get up from work the next day. And because everybody was doing it, it felt fine. But I think I was just doing it for a different reason.

[30:55] And even until literally a couple of years ago, I'd be getting to six or seven o'clock in the evening and I'd be like, why do I crave a glass of wine? And it's not like I was getting really drunk. It was just that what I realized now is that my work day was over and I didn't know what to do after that because there was no regulation.

[31:15] So I would, Have a glass of wine or two, and then I'd be like, okay, I'll just slump on the sofa. And it it was only recently that I was like, this is the reason that I'm doing this. This is why I'm doing it because there's nothing else. I don't know what to do with my evenings.

[31:33] yeah, it's unfortunately, it's been a huge crutch, but at least I'm aware of it now. And, I won't change anything, but it's, always good to just be aware of the reasons that you're doing things.

[31:50] Ian: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So it's, I think this is why for me, it sounds like for you as well, the diagnosis. It's been so helpful. Not only has it taken away a lot of that guilt and that shame and it's given a, given you knowledge, but it's also it's helping you in the move, moving forwards, like with strategies and understanding things, and understanding how self medication can come into this and why it's, not a good idea.

[32:19] It's, and sometimes it's subtle, like just the other day, I was, I just came home after a really busy day. I probably was a little bit anxious and my brain was just going round and round and I just felt like having a glass of whiskey. I'm a big fan of single bottle whiskey and I thought I could, yeah, just that little glass.

[32:39] And then I thought about it and I thought, that's not a good idea because if I wanted to have a glass of whiskey, because I would just really fancy having a glass of whiskey and I like the taste of it, but I'm wanting to have this glass of whiskey to quieten down my brain and to stop me feeling this way.

[32:55] And I thought, No, I'm not gonna do it. And actually I told my wife I said, look, I think I probably shouldn't have a whiskey because of these reasons. She said, no, you shouldn't. I thought, oh, okay. Fair enough. Yes. sorry. She's my accountability partner there. and so yeah, that's, that's, really interesting.

[33:17] So you mentioned a few things before we get into your maybe we you've mentioned a little bit going into the workplace and stuff. But you mentioned a few things when you were younger. and I don't know if you feel comfortable talking about this, you mentioned about, I think you did.

[33:32] You said you went into a home and there was, it sounds like there were things were not straightforward in your

[33:41] Kerry: Yeah, and I think this actually,

[33:45] sorry, I this actually leads into some of the ADHD. not the initial part, basically, and I walked away from my mum when I was quite young, because of the stress that she caused. But, now I know that, ADHD is hereditary. I can see a lot of the issues that she had, were with the reasons behind that.

[34:12] so I was living with my dad and he actually went to prison when I was 15. And so I went to live with my stepsister, who was only maybe early twenties. And basically she couldn't cope with me because I was a young teenage girl with ADHD, whose dad had just gone to prison. And I remember vividly there was one day where I just, I didn't know, like my emotions just felt so big.

[34:43] And this is the thing that I've come to realize is that. I feel big things. There's never like a medium scale. And I was sat in my room and I got my like pillowcase and I just started tearing my pillowcase with brute force because I was the emotions were so huge. I just didn't know what to do with them.

[35:05] And I think this is possibly where, when boys with ADHD, throw tantrums and stuff like that. It's a very external thing. But the, thoughts in my head and the emotions, and I was like ripping this thing, and I just, needed to get this stuff out. So it's understandable that my young, step sister wasn't able to cope with this.

[35:28] yeah, so I was putting a woman's hostel, actually, sorry, it was when I was at the age of 16, so as soon as I turned 16, but I was the oldest in my year. I was in a woman's hostel, classed as homeless because there's no fixed abode. And, yeah, that's where I ended up for a little while before the council got me a flat.

[35:50] And I think this is another thing, I didn't have any. I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse that I didn't have any strong adult characters around. I think maybe if I did, I would have even repressed even more, but I started to try and figure out who I was as a person quite young. yeah, it was having a sibling who couldn't cope with you is classic, I think that's it

[36:20] Ian: emotional dysregulation thing. I think a lot of us can look into a childhood and family situations and, Yeah, I see a lot of that. And there's definitely genetics involved. And obviously that would have had a big impact on You the, those emotions that you had when you were tearing up that pillow, did those emotions.

[36:48] So when you went into this hostel and then, when you got your flat, what happened to those emotions did, as you came to understand who you were. Which is that's amazing that you were able to do that so young because for so many of us it takes time. I still don't exactly know what I want to do when I grow up.

[37:12] I always joke about that and who I am. We're all trying to work that out. but yeah, how did those emotions, did they die down? Cause that, With neurotypical people, apparently, this is what's supposed to happen, you go through puberty and then you become a normal person and everything's great.

[37:29] I'm exaggerating, of course, but, that's the kind of the feeling.

[37:33] Kerry: I hadn't really thought about it, but when you mentioned it, I realized I, I think I became a bit of a loner. And so I had friends, but they were few. So I wasn't, again, very popular, I didn't have like massive group of friends. And I, as horrible as it sounds, I think being on my own helped because I didn't have to worry about what other people around me were thinking and doing. I didn't have this constant stress that I was upsetting somebody or I'd said the wrong thing, and I think that helped. It's as soon as I started to get around people that I started to struggle with the emotional side again, because of this. constant dialogue and the scenarios that I created in my head around a possible perceived rejection, that kind of thing.

[38:31] So I think it did die down because I just kept myself to myself for a little bit. Again, it's not like I didn't have friends, but the ones that I did have knew me enough to not be offended by anything weird that I said, or.

[38:48] Ian: And do you look back now and think, those friends, do you think some of those friends were neurodiverse themselves? Were they ADHD? I hear, a lot of the time that people with ADHD tend to navigate or, be attracted to people. with ADHD, probably because we get each other a lot more, even if we don't know we have ADHD, I've, looked back and I'm pretty sure that's why I got on with the friends I got on

[39:15] Kerry: Yeah, I can't remember back then, but now definitely it is, it's having a conversation where with somebody who doesn't mind that the conversation doesn't seem to have a beginning, middle and end. And interestingly enough, now that I've started talking about it since the diagnosis. One of my friends has been diagnosed, she was diagnosed with anxiety, she's now been diagnosed with ADHD.

[39:45] Another friend who suffers quite badly with rejection sensitivity, we talked about it, she's now thinking of going for diagnosis. Another friend who, doesn't affect her badly, but the traits are very, strong. Is now thinking, maybe I do have, I've just thought all this stuff that I did was normal, but apparently it's not, so yes, I do, I've now discovered that it's the people who aren't neurotypical, but I struggle with sometimes, because I start picking up on these little micro expressions when I'm going off on a tangent, and I'm like, oh God, I'm doing it again.

[40:27] Whereas

[40:28] the people who seem to be, even if they're not diagnosed neurodiverse, just accept it.

[40:36] Ian: Because that's the way their brains work as well. but yeah, that, that, intuition that we, a lot of us have. is a blessing and a curse, isn't it? Because it's a good thing, but it sometimes is, it is like a superpower. I don't want to say ADHD is a superpower because there are, it's a, very mixed bag.

[40:57] Let's be frank about it. But intuition is a, superpower, but it needs to be used. With a lot of care and attention. So, in school, you, how, did the whole kind of, how does school finish for you? We, did you, did it, go well? and what was the next, can you talk us through?

[41:21] like the end of school and then moving on to the next stage in your life. What was that like? Because for many people, that's, quite a big, that's a big thing. And I know you weren't living with parents, you were on your own. So you already had that. what's the word I'm looking for? you were already, I don't know where you would call it responsible, but you, were living on your own.

[41:47] but it's still quite a big thing, isn't it? Cause you're in this institution of school and then, you've got this big wide world and then within the what next. So can you navigate, tell us that, what happened then?

[42:02] Kerry: Yeah, it's interesting you say about the responsibility. I think even when I was really young, there was an element of me being responsible. I was responsible for my mum because sometimes she couldn't cope for herself. when, When my dad got picked up to take to prison, I had to be responsible for my siblings because my stepmum was just all over the place, so I had to be the one to take them all upstairs and tell them it'd be all be okay.

[42:33] And I think I've always had this, I don't know what you would call it, this, this practicality around me. I know we're probably going to talk about this later. I, don't think, I feel uncomfortable about calling myself smart, but I've definitely got street smart. So I am able to adapt to situations.

[43:01] and as long as it's not an emotional situation, I am pretty good with like scenarios and crisis. But after school, I didn't do well. I could have done much better because I was, in my own, in a room, in a women's hostel with I had some great teachers who, you know, who would come and visit me and make sure I was doing okay.

[43:27] But I didn't have somebody to push me and I, so I came away with B, five C's and two, so B, five C's, a D and two E's. B was in art. And I knew I could have done better, but it just didn't manifest. So I tried to put myself through college, and so I tried, dramatic arts, weirdly, for a short period.

[43:51] And then I went on to trying, even back then, psychology. I was always fascinated with how, the brain worked. And law, I was thinking criminal psychology at the age of 17. I was always, as my mum said, a very grown up youngster. but I was, I was on council allowance, trying to put myself through college and get all the books, and it just wasn't working, so I got a job.

[44:21] And when I knew I was coming on this podcast, I was trying to figure out how I managed to not get in trouble. I think I've got a self preserve, a very sense of self preservation, but how I managed to get some of the jobs that I did because I was inexperienced. I got my first job as a, as an office junior, I didn't have a CV.

[44:48] and then from there I went for a job as an office manager in a IT firm I got it. How do you go from an office junior job to an office manager? Good job. And I, I don't know if this is where the masking helped because I became somebody else, like I became this confident person and even though the internal dialogue was like, what are you doing?

[45:19] I can't believe you're doing this. It's not going to, maybe it's the dopamine chasing as well again. But I, yeah, I, so I tried to put myself through college, didn't work, got my first job, got my second job, but that's when the debt started to happen, when I started to, I wanted to go out and I wanted to get all this stuff, to buy, and I just didn't have the money, so I started cashing payday checks.

[45:46] With hindsight, again, what I've learned is that a lot of people with ADHD have very low impulse control, particularly when it comes to shopping.

[45:56] Ian: Yeah,

[45:57] Kerry: with money.

[45:59] So again, now that I'm aware of that I've put things in place to just help but back then it was just Yeah, I was just buying stuff.

[46:09] So that's what came after school And yeah, that's where I started working my way the career ladder

[46:18] Ian: yeah. yeah, the whole finance thing. I'd be really interested for people listening and watching, about the whole, yeah, the getting into debt thing. Cause I think the problem is like credit cards are like the worst thing for some people with ADHD. It's like a little dopamine machine.

[46:39] I remember going to the Just, I think this was when, like the first smartphones came and I saw this, this phone and I wanted it, and I kept on saying, no, I can't afford it. But then I just went in really quickly and I bought it and I walked out and it was just too easy. So I actually gave.

[46:58] I think I gave somebody my credit card. Just please look after it for me. because it is, it's a tricky one. do you look back now? Cause, cause when you mentioned like your results, there was, maybe I'm, misinterpreting it, but it seems like you're still looking back at those days with a little bit of regret.

[47:20] And how did you, Cause you, you're clearly, even if you're not going to say this, I'm going to say this, you are a smart person and

[47:31] Kerry: that, was cringing.

[47:34] Ian: I know, I don't know if you heard, actually I think it wasn't the episode that I published, it was Tamara anyway was talking about me being smart and I was cringing, I think the episode isn't out yet, it's going to come.

[47:47] and you'll see maybe the look of absolute cringe on my face. but I think often like I look back at my results at school and let's be frank, do like GCSEs and NL levels. does anyone worry about those later on? They don't really, I shouldn't say this, but how much of a difference do they make?

[48:05] But at the time, I think we could look at ourselves. I think we, if we know in our heads, I think that we can achieve. A lot more and maybe part of us know that we are actually smart, even though the inner dialogue is saying no, we're not and we know that we can achieve a lot more. But because of the circumstances, because of the way our brains work, we don't achieve what we think we want that we should be getting were you beating yourself up a little bit about that?

[48:37] Or was that not an issue for you?

[48:39] Kerry: I think at the time, obviously I was disappointed, because I have this sense that I can achieve more. And that always makes me feel quite cringy as well because it's like, who are you to do this? But it's, I've always had this inner, in a feeling that I am capable of more, which again makes me cringe.

[49:10] But, yeah, so I was disappointed because I knew I could do better. And it's the same as, when I had high expectations of being the head girl, but kept getting detention. So I couldn't. So I always had this sort of this, thing to achieve. But as an adult now, I think I, advocate, I, hate the fact that when GCSEs come around and there's so much pressure on kids, there's, and more so now than then, so I try and post about the fact that I didn't do well.

[49:45] And it's not what grades you get, it's what you do with them, because people can get straight A's and do nothing with their lives. And the only time that it's been an issue for me was when I was mid twenties and I went for a job at, I think it was the Bank of England. And they turned me down because of my grades.

[50:04] And even though I was way more experienced than a lot of the other people there. So that's the only time that it's been an issue, and I think if somebody with ADHD has got bad grades, the creativity element will just push them forward anyway, as long as they can harness the creativity. And yeah, they have that lack of fear that a lot of us have.

[50:33] It doesn't really matter anymore. Personally, I knew my circumstances were hard. So having those grades doesn't say anything about who I was as a person.

[50:47] Ian: no, absolutely not. And, but it can really affect some people, because of that, negative self dialogue. You said something really interesting there that I wanted to lean into and that's what got you out of that. And I don't want to, I don't want to put words into your mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong here, but what got you out of that thinking was leaning into your creativity and you are clearly a very creative person.

[51:15] A lot of people with ADHD are, not all, but a lot, are. And so when did you realize that you were a really creative person? and tell us a little bit more about that time after college and stuff, where you started to lean into, that and how did that kind of save you? I don't know if that's the right phrase, but yeah.

[51:36] Tell us a bit more

[51:38] Kerry: So the creativity element has always been there for as long as I can remember. At school, I was, I was writing children's stories. I was trying to illustrate them. I was looking into fashion design. It was, I grew up in a fairly Rough area, let's say, and so these things were not something that was installed in school or via, peers or siblings.

[52:12] This, was just there. I loved music. My music teacher told me he was quite disappointed that I didn't take it as a GCSE. And so I think the way that personally my brain works, because it's always active, I'm always coming up with new things. And I think that stood to be in good stead when I went into the corporate world.

[52:39] So it's not particularly creative world. However, I was always open to new ideas, and I was always looking for new things to do, and trying to be creative with solutions, and, trying to solve problems creatively, and similar to when I wasn't disruptive, but I wouldn't accept the normal way of thinking.

[53:10] So that in that respect, I think it helped me in the corporate world and again with things like my CV, I, I wouldn't stand to the normal template. I try and add something interesting in there, which would make me stand out from the other people. And and obviously, because now I know I have ADHD, but my hobbies were, on there all the time because they weren't the normal hobbies and,

[53:39] Ian: Yeah

[53:40] Kerry: archery being one of them.

[53:44] And it was those kinds of things that helped me just get by really in a, very structured corporate world. It's the creative way that my brain thought that, that stopped me, I think, going overboard a little bit. But as I said, it's, I did, I don't think I stayed in one job more than two years. yeah, the creativity only had so far, it

[54:13] Ian: and this was because you got, bored and the creativity that could help to a point, but then you needed a, like a new, just, something different, a new challenge, So can you tell us a little bit more about the, when you say the corporate world, That can mean lots of different things.

[54:31] What were the kind of jobs that you were doing? And I'm really interested to know some of these things that you were thinking. A lot of this is like the divergent thinking and I'm getting, better. I always get mixed up with convergent and divergent, but I think as ADHD people, we tend to be very good at thinking out of the box, thinking of other ways around and, other people can think.

[54:51] Oh, wow. How do you think of that? That's, you're thinking, that's just the way my brain works. tell us about you the corporate jobs that you were doing and some of the kind of, I don't know if you can remember any of these like creative ideas that you were thinking about, but maybe if you can share some of

[55:08] Kerry: So I started off as a office manager in an IT firm in Manchester, and it was the things like I would take on board, the things that other people wouldn't. I was the office manager, but we didn't have an IT department in house. It was down south. So I was the one taking over the patching of the telephone lines and, the wiring and the, and patching up of all the PCs and things like that.

[55:37] So I think because it was just another element to keep me interested. The creativity thing came in because I was, doing things that other people didn't want to do, or that didn't know how to do, but I was learning, and is, I think, I say, I think a lot, this is how I got through a lot of my corporate years is, I wasn't, I, again, coming back to school, I was learning new things all the time, and I was pushing myself.

[56:02] So it was not sticking to my job spec basically, so that's the way that it, the creativity element helped me because I was constantly looking at things around me and saying, can I do that? Can I do that? Can I help with that? So from there, I moved down to London and I worked on an IT help desk. For a short while, and then again on to the London Clearinghouse on an IT help desk there, and I wanted to do, I wanted to be in the hardware section, I want to do the patching and the telephone lines.

[56:38] I got told that it was very, physical for a woman, so I couldn't go down that route. It was a long time ago. I wouldn't have stood for that nowadays. then I went into being a PA. And so I was being a PA to CEOs, MDs. business owners. Weirdly, loved it. I loved organizing other people. Can't organize myself, loved organizing other people.

[57:06] And one of my bosses, who's a very successful entrepreneur, when he gave me my reference said, Kerry is like a swan. So she's cool, calm and collected on the surface. And then underneath everything is like going 10 to the dozen, which I think describes. those kinds of elements, yeah, they just pushed me forward in the corporate world because I wasn't sticking to my job role.

[57:35] I was always trying to look for other things to do. So it's not necessarily coming up with a single creative solution. It was more like a wider scope.

[57:45] Ian: Now that's fascinating. It's really interesting, isn't it? You'd think that being a. A PA would be the last job somebody with ADHD would be doing. But this is the thing, this, sometimes there are the stereotypes and, actually you were, really good at organizing other people and coming up with creative ways to do that.

[58:06] And I've had a similar experience in my life. Like I'm, I can be hyper organized, and this is the hyper fixation, hyper focus kind of thing. You can do things like, like you're a ninja with things. but when it comes to the boring stuff, yeah. we, we really struggle with that.

[58:31] So I will, come back. I do want to come back to the, maybe this point in your life, but I want, I'm really interested to know how, and it's so interesting that you did all these it things, and then you became a PA. So what, how, what was the journey from there and to what you're doing now?

[58:50] Cause what you're doing now is just a little bit different to all of that. So I'm just interested to know some part of that journey.

[58:58] Kerry: there was a very specific change and it was, this is saying how old I am, so it was before the age of smartphones with cameras on them. I picked up a just a point and shoot camera and I, bought one because we were, taking photos out on nights out with our friends on those ones that you had to get printed basically.

[59:28] And so I bought a. digital SLR, sorry, not a digital, just a little point and shoot camera, just so that it's a little, it was a bit more practical and it had a bit more functionality. It was just friends on a night out or friends on a walk, that kind of thing. I just wanted to create these memories. And then from there, I picked up, I bought my first digital SLR, and it had a very clunky zoom lens, and there was a moment, and I was in a caravan park, and there was some tulips, and I took a photo, zoomed in on this tulip, and the background was all blurry, but the Tulip was in focus and that was hooked.

[60:16] I was like, this is beautiful. I can't believe this is what you can do. And I just started practicing and on everything. I did event photography for gigs. so Guns to Roses tribute band, I did some photography for them. I did food, photography, cheese, wine, vineyards. I did, like restaurants. I just, whatever I could do, I was just like absorbing all these different scenarios and all these different ways that you could photograph, which as you can probably imagine for an A DHD person is a dream.

[60:55] But this was all sort of a hobbyist type thing. And then I went, I got Meg redundant. and decided to start trying to do weddings because I thought this was possibly about 15 years ago. That's the only way that you could make money as a photographer. the internet wasn't like a massive vast thing that it is now.

[61:20] So I didn't have very much information about what you could do with photography or how you could do it. So I started second shooting and shooting my own weddings and. Got good quick. I was finalist in a few regional awards, which again the imposter syndrome came in. It blew my mind a little bit like I don't understand.

[61:43] I've only been doing this a year or two. And then I got my first dog, and then that's when everything completely changed. I started taking photographs of him, set up a little page called Whippet Snippets, which gained like 9, 000 followers, which, in those days, was huge. And people started commissioning me for their own dog portraits.

[62:08] And so I did, and I was charging, I think, 25 for an hour's session way back then. And I got a call from a lady called Debbie, who made jumpers for dogs, like handmade jumpers, hand knitted jumpers. And her photographer had just quit, and she'd seen my Whippet Snippets page, and she said, Can you, can we work together? I was so nervous after this phone call and I was so desperate for the job. And she came to me, we did some photography, I looked at it the other day, oh my days, it was awful, but she loved it. And that's the main thing. And it's just steamrolled from there. I moved to Cumbria after my divorce, Three years ago, I found the private client photography really hard, it's a completely different area.

[63:05] It's very raw of where I am. And I was doing more and more commercial photography organically. So brands were approaching me and I thought this is easy. I hated this element, a selling element of the private client stuff. So trying to sell the wall art and things like that. I've been on sales courses. I tried some various different methods and it's just hard.

[63:29] Whereas, The commercial side I found easy. And again, it was the organization element that I liked. organizing dog models, organizing locations, organizing shop lists, the works. And last, I think it was last October, I just decided to go all in. And have got maybe five or six new clients, regular clients since then.

[63:53] And that's, That's where the transition started, like right back from picking up the point and shoot camera, to nights, on nights out, to full time commercial pet photographer.

[64:07] Ian: That's amazing. And it's that looking back at your life, you need that creativity that's been there like since the early days. And this ability to hyper focus and hyper fixate, which let's be frank is not always a good thing, but in this case it was because you like went probably into so much depth and details on how cameras worked and how to take photographs.

[64:33] The intuition I think that you've got has really helped because you just. Probably part of it is technical. I'm sure. But part of it is like you just know how to take a good photo. And but the way that's all worked together. And I think it's great the way you've been able to realize like what you're not comfortable with.

[64:53] what doesn't float your boat. Or maybe gives you anxiety that type of working with certain types of clients, like weddings and stuff like that. I can imagine that being very stressful. and it's great that everything has come together and you feel that you're doing something that you love, that you're good at.

[65:10] and that is a, good business. It's that, it's the, it's, the IKIGAI concept. And I can always, if you come across IKIGAI, so it's this kind of. Combination of doing something that you're good at something that the world needs. I always get this mixed up. something that world needs, something that people will pay for.

[65:30] anyways, it's that combination of all those I'll remember later. I always get mixed up. but that's, cool. So you mentioned. the charging side of things. now that's, interesting because that's been maybe a difficulty for a lot of people. I remember when I trained as a musician and I, found charging what I should be charging difficult and it's been a real big journey to where I am now.

[66:00] I'm a much, much better at it now. has that been an issue for you? The whole kind of charging what you should be charging

[66:10] Kerry: Most definitely. When I was a portrait photographer, the selling element, I found really uncomfortable, like really uncomfortable, and I didn't want to be pushy. And I don't think you'd need to be as a salesperson. I've realized that now. but I also didn't see, I don't think I saw the value in what I was doing back then.

[66:39] Even though people would tell me the value. I went to a lot of conferences where people told their story and the reason why they were doing what they were doing. And it was really deep and heartfelt. But I didn't, I couldn't, I didn't know. I didn't know. I was like, I just wanted, I just want to take beautiful photos.

[66:57] That was, there's no, major grand scheme behind this. I just want to take beautiful photos. And if I had all the money in the world, I would still be doing this. the selling thing was really hard. I think, I'm not sure if this is the same for you, as soon as I became more comfortable with, Myself and what I could do.

[67:20] That's when the charging got easier. I don't think I'm the best photographer in the world. I think there are people who, whose photography isn't as good as mine on a personal preference. but are making more money than I am because they know what to do with it. That's where my, that's where I started to get comfortable.

[67:46] I didn't have to be the best in the world. I just need to know what I can do with my imagery and how I can help my commercial clients. And as long as they're happy, it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks. I'm sure there are photographers who would pick holes in my work, but I'm not trying to help them.

[68:06] I'm trying to help my brand client. And as soon as that distinction got into place, I started to get more comfortable with what I was charging and recognizing that It's not just about the photo, it's not just about the photography, it's about all the elements around it.

[68:22] Ian: It is and it's about your personality and people, people are either going to love you or they're not going to like the way you work and that can be quite difficult for People with ADHD sometimes, but I think once you get, you said you became much more kind of content and happy and who you were, and I think working with those kind of clients who love you, who love all your quirks and the way you work, and they love that creativity.

[68:50] That, that is the best possible. thing to do. We've all probably, I'm sure you've had worked with clients that just, you just don't get on. They just don't, they, don't like the way your brain works and it's just horrendous. So why put yourself through all of that? That's why, I think so.

[69:11] That is, that's awesome. Awesome to hear. Before we go back to, I wanted to just finish on maybe a few more, positive notes and talk about like how ADHD is, maybe helping you in a, way or how that, so this is maybe the, ADHD is your superpower kind of thing. We've talked about it, all the things that are maybe negative about it, but we let's.

[69:37] I'd like to ask you about, how, ADHD is, maybe affected things like relationships and things like that throughout your, time. Cause you mentioned, you got divorced. And I know that a lot of people with ADHD really struggle with all types of relationships, whether it's with, parents or friends or, romantic relationships and things like that.

[70:03] What's been your journey with that and how looking back on that now, what have you maybe learnt about yourself that's helping you move forward with things?

[70:11] Kerry: So it was really interesting, because I was going on a bit of a journey of self discovery before I was diagnosed or knew that I had ADHD. I was learning tactics such as, so there's a book called Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, which is by a guy called Steven Cooper. Stephen Covey, it's over there.

[70:38] It's my bible and it's not an easy read, it's not a quick win, but it completely transformed a lot of the ways that I do things and one thing in particular was having a gap between, training myself to have a gap between reaction and response. So with the emotional dysregulation side, what I used to do was respond, sorry, react really quickly.

[71:06] And that book, as well as meditation, has helped me create that gap. So it's a pause where I reassess. And because I was going through that, I was being very aware of my relationship at the time, and I was being aware of what's important to me. What that helped me, what this helped me do was ADHD in my decision to leave my partner. I spent maybe three years trying to make sure that it wasn't a reaction, that it wasn't because I was getting bored because, or because, it was a whole heap of other things. It made me very aware of the way that my brain works. And I wanted to make sure that I wasn't making a mistake. although the ADHD didn't help me with the relationship in that respect, being aware of myself and how my brain worked, even before I knew I had ADHD, helped me make better decisions.

[72:21] with ADHD, as I said, I got bored quite quickly, before I knew this was happening. Or, similar to what you said earlier, actually, with the theory of rejection, a lot of the reasons that I decided to end relationships was either because I was bored or because, in my head, they were going to end it. So I got in there first because I didn't want that rejection. it's Being aware has helped me focus more on how my brain works and how it affects my relationships. And now I have a partner who I've been very open and honest with right from the very start, and I will communicate with her. My feelings, and rather than being an emotional communication, I will be very verbal in that gap where I've created, that little space between reaction and response.

[73:21] And in that respect, knowing that I've got ADHD now has made it much more coherent and how I communicate with my relationships, but it definitely, helps to be self aware. I don't know if that makes sense.

[73:38] Ian: No, it absolutely

[73:39] Kerry: was the question?

[73:40] Ian: yeah. No, that's, and that's amazing. That's, that is amazing that you got to that, level of self awareness and you've learned those, seem to me to be really positive strategies. even before you knew officially that you had ADHD, you were able to put in place those positive strategies to help move forwards.

[74:05] And so how has now being officially diagnosed with ADHD, how has that helped you put forward like really positive strategies? and maybe share with us like how. Yeah. what is the way forwards for you now that you have ADHD, what are the things that you're putting into place? Are you looking, are you putting, you, you mentioned quite a kind of a holistic, way forwards.

[74:34] Have you gone down the medication route as how, tell us a little bit more about where you're the, next stage in your life, navigating life with ADHD.

[74:46] Kerry: The first thing I think I would like to say, because it's something you said earlier, is about the ADH superpowers. That's the one thing that I didn't answer, and, relationships. So one of the things that I've recognised is I am an oversharer. And that's how I gained a lot of connections. So I have no qualms about speaking quite openly about my struggles, things that make me happy, being nerdy. I'm not very good at small talk. Give me an in depth conversation and I'm away and we're best friends. That's amazing, but I'm not very good small talk and so in like the oversharing element. I now know is apparently an ADHD thing in some people and. the lack of fear I, as some people have, and I will throw myself into situations because I don't mind change, and that can make a relationship with, as a friendship or a partner, quite fun because we're always trying new things.

[75:57] And I think those elements, now that I recognize them, I can almost harness them. So I, I love networking. one to one. So that sharing, that connection, awful in a big crowd of people, absolutely terrible. But I'm leaning into that now that I know that this oversharing thing is a thing and that it's, not everybody does it apparently, but I'm leaning into it and starting to build networks and connecting people.

[76:31] Even if I can't help the person with photography or a brand with photography, what I do is talk about other brands that they might, want to connect with and being open in that sense has really helped me. Whereas some people are quite cagey or, they, they just talk about sales all the time.

[76:52] I talk about who I am, what I love, and I'm attracting the right kind of clients and people around me because I'm leaning into that openness and that, that oversharing, if you like. And so that's one of the superpowers that I think is going to, take me forward. And again, the other thing is.

[77:13] Because as you said, your mind's going constantly, that creativity element has pushed me forward as well. It's like I'm always trying new things. I've tried little memberships, or I've done photography for beginners courses, which was quite successful. And having that mindset of not sticking to the same thing all the time really helps me.

[77:37] if something's not working, of course I will keep trying. I'm not going to push it if there's an easier way or a different way of doing things and I'm looking at those different ways. not linear, so that again is something that's helping me, push me forward and again, leaning into that and not being scared of the fact that everybody else who I, who's, somebody might say, no, you have to stick to this thing, but why?

[78:03] Being curious. One of my clients who I help with social media, she's just, like, how do you keep coming up with all these ideas, like you said earlier? Because my brain doesn't stop and, they Whereas, the negative side, where sometimes my brain doesn't stop with the inner dialogue, but once I latch onto a situation, it's very, It's, the, they just, it won't stop.

[78:28] That's just stuff coming at me all the time. So there's those elements which you can, lean into the positive sides and acknowledge the negative sides, there's so many things that you can do because you're, wired differently that are really exciting. So

[78:50] Ian: Oh, yeah. and that's just, you just put that so beautifully. that, that is ultimately at the end of the day, this podcast, I want this podcast to be educational, to help people, to, navigate forwards. I, but I don't want to sugarcoat it either. And we have, we've not sugarcoated it today.

[79:14] But, we've also, you've also sprinkled some hope over this as well. There is amazing things, those of us with ADHD can do amazing things. We've got this amazing, unquenchable, is that the right word? Of, curiosity. that is partly our fuel and I'd look back at the successes in my life and it's always been when I've followed my curiosity, when I've followed what other people think, say I should be focused on, that's when it's just not gone so well.

[79:43] So I think we have to, follow our curiosity and that's beautiful. so you've definitely Been implementing all of those things. And so so what's next for you? What's, in terms of your business, and in terms of your navigating forwards with ADHD, what's, the next stage?

[80:05] Kerry: you did mention I have been starting medication, which been a bit of a game changer, and I was very nervous about it because I'm not somebody who is an automatic pharmaceutical taker, so you know, I very rarely have even paracetamol if I can help it. But, so far, it's been, and I was scared that it'd change my brain, so far it's been really positive.

[80:39] My energy levels, which were crashing all the time because I was mentally all over the place, have stabilised, my focus is better, but that doesn't mean that I still don't want to take a more holistic approach, so I still meditate. I still journal, I'm still reading my, I don't know if you're deemed as self help books, but I'm always adding to what the medication can do.

[81:04] So I've got a solid toolkit, basically. Next for the business, worldwide domination.

[81:12] Ian: Yeah

[81:13] Kerry: It's, it's, I've got, again, I've got all these grand plans and they're starting to roll with the connection thing. What I would love to do is to shoot for brands abroad and, travel further afield for the shootings. At the moment I travel all around the UK.

[81:36] I, I would love to be able to teach photographers how to become a successful commercial pet photographer because it's quite a niche industry and it's very different from private client shoots. There are a whole heap of things, and again, because if you've got this element of ADHD in you, you've got all these ideas and you do start to hyperfocus, there are things that could just, that other people just won't think of, that are accessible to you.

[82:09] Ian: yeah.

[82:10] and this is why entrepreneurship is such a great job. If you want to call it, is it a job? Yeah, probably. It's a, it's whatever. It's a light. It's a way of life. Let's put it that way. for, those of us with ADHD and, It's been, amazing to hear your, smart strategies that you have developed over the years.

[82:32] And we are going to use the word smart, even though we feel uncomfortable. That's why I put it on, I put it in the title because I'm uncomfortable with it.

[82:42] but,

[82:42] Kerry: I visibly recoiled.

[82:44] Ian: yeah, and also it doesn't, I've talked about this in the, video. I think it's a cultural thing as well.

[82:54] I think if you're British, it's not just the British thing. I think we don't like to put ourselves up and we want to bring ourselves down and all this kind of stuff. That's why I like to, not that all Americans are like this, but I do spending time with my American friends because they, potentially robs off a little bit of me, the more kind of, I don't know, holistic view of this.

[83:18] But, before, so yeah. how can people find out a bit more about you and your, job and tell us about the services that you offer? Just because you can basically plug, your business. You've got time to

[83:31] Kerry: Okay, awesome. So as I said at the start, I am a commercial pet photographer. If you don't know what that is, then I create visual imagery to captivate your ideal audience. So it's much more than just product photography. It's telling a story, which is Something that I've always loved to do and the services that I offer is I travel all around the UK for shoots and I take it from like from conception to completion with you basically so I will help you organize dog models or pet models, locations, the kind of shoots that you want.

[84:10] the kind of imagery that you want to portray your brand. And as we talked about, this, creative element, I can help you come up with ideas that possibly you might not have thought about. They might be ambitious also, but I'm always willing to give it a try.

[84:27] Ian: That's awesome. But how can people find out about you? You've got a website and

[84:31] are you on

[84:31] socials?

[84:33] Kerry: Yeah, I'm on all the socials. So if you go to thuramfables. com, that's my website, and all my socials are connected to there. So LinkedIn, I'm quite proud of. big on at the moment, Instagram, Facebook, little bit of TikTok, but not very much. And X, also known as Twitter, but just type Fear and Fables and I'll

[84:56] Ian: add that afterwards. all the, all your links will be in the show notes. So if you go to smartadhd. me and navigate to the podcast bit and, you'll find all the information there. But just before we finish, what message or advice would you say for others who are just discovering that they have ADHD maybe in later life, later in life, maybe in their 40s or whatever, what would you say to people?

[85:28] what would be your message?

[85:29] Kerry: Learn what your strengths are, your, as you put ADHD superpowers, learn how you can harness them, read, research, do some self development work and embrace them. there's possibly going to be negative sides, and you can deal with those too, but you're going to get so much more confidence in yourself by learning to embrace your ADH superpowers and harness them, and that will help with the negative side.

[86:01] Ian: Thanks so much, Kerry. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you. on this podcast and for you to share your story. It's been a real privilege and thank you so much for being open and honest. I know you say you're an oversharer, but it's just been beautiful. So thank you so

[86:18] Kerry: You're very welcome. It's been an absolute joy.