The Smart ADHD Guide to Decluttering Your Life Part 2

[0:56] Ian: Hello and welcome back to the smart ADHD podcast. Today we're diving into the wonderful world of decluttering and how it can make a huge difference for ADHD brains. And I'm so happy to welcome back Lesley Spellman to the show. This is part two in our series on decluttering. Now, Lesley is a professional organizer, the founder of the Clutter Fairy, and the co founder of the Declutter Hub. She's helped countless people take control of their space, their stuff, their lives, through her podcast Education and Speaking.

[1:30] And so maybe you've been feeling overwhelmed by clutter, struggling to stay on top of your space, or just not knowing where to start. That definitely sounded like I was just last year. Well, in this episode, we're talking about practical ways to simplify and declutter your life in a way that actually works for ADHD brains.

[1:50] Let's get on with it right now.

[1:52] Hi, Lesley. Welcome back to the smart ADHD podcast. It's great to have you back. We were talking about Decluttering and again, we're going to be talking about decluttering in this episode, but we're going to talk a little bit more about Some processes, you can hire a declutterer if that's needed. And a few other things before we move on to digital decluttering.

[2:14] So there's a lot to talk about. Let's get stuck into it. We talked about kitchens last time and getting started. And we talked about some bags and cleaning products and stuff like that. we talked about the joys of a label maker as well, which is great. Are there any other tools that we should have?

[2:30] I just want to make a big shout out to a blog post that you wrote where you were talking about the top things that we can have that will help. And one of those was, I don't even know what you call it. It's like one of these

[2:40] Lesley: Yeah, it's called an ID roller, Yeah. So basically what an, yeah, what an ID roller is it, stops you having to shred everything. So obviously if you've got tons and tons of stuff, you're going to tons and tons of paperwork, you're going to need to shred it, right? Cause it's just going to take you too long to use the ID roller.

[2:57] But what it is, it basically obliterates is whether that's a word, eradicate, I don't even know, you roll over with some ink over addresses. And so if you are that kind of person that wants to, cover or shred, Financial data, which we would highly recommend. Some people are not too worried about addresses cause they are readily available in lots of places, but it just depends.

[3:17] And they are fantastic for like a parcels that you get from Amazon or for things that you get that are plastic, because obviously we can't shred like plastic packaging. So ID roll is a brilliant for that and Jiffy bags and all that kind of stuff. So an ID roll is a bit of a game changer for a lot of people.

[3:34] Yeah, an ID roll is a fantastic piece of kit. you've got a sort of standard label maker where it prints out. You've got the more online app based label maker, which label makers, which I love, you can't go wrong with a label maker and if you can get one where the labels look more beautiful.

[3:50] So more the app based ones, they are great for a lot of people. I swear by a, collapsible crates, so the crates that you, get from, I don't know, B& Q, like wherever, they cost about three or four pounds, Tesco's. They're really handy because you can keep 10, 20 collapsible crates and they can be so helpful for you when you are trying to containerize, organize, categorize.

[4:16] So as you're working through, particularly if you've got higher volumes, you can chuck all the stationery that you find into one box. You can put all of the stuff that belongs in the kitchen in another box. And, if you are halfway through a decluttering session, you can stack up the boxes and the room doesn't look like a complete bombsite.

[4:32] And collapsible crates are really handy and quite cost effective to buy.

[4:37] Ian: Yeah, no, that's awesome stuff. Really, helpful. I just want to ask you before we move on. One thing that I know affects me and affects a lot of people with ADHD is mail. So you get stuff through your door. It piles up. Usually it's like for me, it's bank statements. It's just I don't really want to see my bank statement.

[4:58] most of it is online, but they still have to send you stuff occasionally. and so there a process, is there like a system that you would recommend for us to be able to deal with that kind of stuff? We've mentioned the Roly, the ID Roly thing, which I've forgotten the name of already. but there are probably other things that we can do, so that we don't get this big kind of corner of shame, this, the kind of all the box of doom where all our mail is festering away.

[5:28] Lesley: think the very best thing to do, we talked a lot in the last podcast about, breaking it down and we talked about non negotiables as well. So having non negotiables in your life. So one of my non negotiables is as soon as the mail comes in, I will get rid of the things that I don't need, which is probably 70 percent of it.

[5:46] Cause most of what comes through your door now is probably junk mail. we've got probably got those plastic wrappers on magazines that come through that we can put ID and just chuck straight in the bin. So the mail comes from my front door. Straight into the kitchen over the recycling bins, and I will get rid of the envelopes, the terms and conditions, the junk mail, the plastic wrappers, and just be left with the things that I know that I need to action.

[6:09] And they will go into my in tray, and I've not got anything elaborate. It's just like next to my desk. And then I'll deal with my paperwork once a week. And so I think what that means is that it doesn't start to pile up to the point where you feel overwhelmed by it. And you know that you had a look at it and seen that it can wait a week or a few days or to whenever you do your life admin.

[6:30] And and increasingly in with everything coming in online, sometimes you might not have to tackle that paperwork for two or three weeks. if we're being honest, I think if you've got, if you've got kids at home and things like that, there's quite a lot of additional stuff coming in from schools and school letters and all that.

[6:45] And so that's a little bit different, but. I would say tackle it at source, don't let it build up because 70 percent of it, you're just going to declutter anyway. And so get into that habit of doing that as soon as you come in. I will do that without. Without any kind of question, as soon as it comes in every single day.

[7:01] Ian: Yeah, definitely. And I think what's helped me is having our shredder really close to the front door. So it comes in, we quickly open the bank statement, but we don't really need to look at it because it's all online anyway, shred it straight away, for things that we do need. obviously if you can try and get everything digital. that helps me at least. the other thing is scanning. So this is my Declutterer Bev is brilliant at this. She'll see some stuff. But why don't you just scan that? so there's two apps on my phone. There's either the ones i'd recommend as adobe Scan it just uses your phone's camera scans it into a pdf and uploads it.

[7:43] so there's that There's also Google drive. So if you use Google drive, there's now a little app, a little button on Google drive that does the same thing. And it adds it directly to your Google drive. And we'll talk a little bit more about digital stuff in a bit, but that's, really helped as well. but just getting it done straight away and not letting it, stay there forever. And I think you, I think what you're saying is sounded to me really simple and manageable. And I, because I was so obsessed before I was diagnosed with ADHD, I was really obsessed with trying to become organized.

[8:17] And I read the book, getting things done is it David Allen. And I just, that was just, it looks amazing, but actually in practice, for me, it was just too complicated. It was having a simple system where you know, things where things are. and then the final thing is, I think for me is, having a, like having a proper archive space.

[8:36] This is a, getting things done thing. So for things that we do need to store, like driving license stuff, for example, or, passports or whatever it is, something that we actually need something physical with. a place in my office where I know all of that stuff is, and that's really helped.

[8:56] Yeah. but sometimes I think we, we need to, we, for those of us with a DHD, sometimes need to realize that some we might need help. professional help. And, for me, with a, my, my A DHD journey, that's included therapy. It's included coaching, it's included obviously diagnosis. when it comes to. Organization and decluttering. Yes, we can do a lot of these things ourselves. And we hope that in these two episodes, Lesley, you've been amazing at showing all these processes and strategies, but sometimes hiring a professional is. The best thing and for me, it absolutely changed everything before I tell, a little bit more about my experience.

[9:45] What would you say are the reasons why we should, hire a professional, to help with this and what can a D professional declutter actually help with? Yeah.

[9:58] Lesley: can help with anything in your home. So we tackle paperwork, we tackle digital, we tackle, stuff generally the management of stuff. And yes, we declutter people's houses. Of course we do. But really what it's about is about helping you and empowering you, the client to make the right decisions for your home.

[10:18] Your life now. So what is enhancing your life as it stands today? So it's not about chucking stuff in a bin bag. It is not that yes that happens as part of the process But it's really about working collaboratively so when you work with a professional organizer most professional organizers like the lion's share of them and I strongly urge you to seek one out that does this We'll work with you all the time.

[10:40] So this is not, they're going to come in and sort your house out for you. That's a completely different process. This is about decluttering and working out systems and processes. I think, working with a professional, make sure that the job gets done. It comes to the top of your to do list. it can be validating for you to understand that you're not alone.

[10:59] I think that a professional organizer will, because we have Come across these things many times before we will give a name to things that you are feeling, whether that's, say, Oh, you probably, have you thought about the fact that you're keeping that thing because you feel guilty and suggest strategies, that empower you to go, you know what, that doesn't seem like the right thing for me.

[11:24] And I do need to let it go. There's something in. very powerful about having somebody right next to you, not forcing you to make a decision, but Encouraging you to make a decision there and then without procrastinating on it. So it takes procrastination out of the whole equation so if that's a problem that you've got then and That is great.

[11:43] But it's just nice to work. It takes the boredom out of it You know, we've talked about it being fun. it's great. I think it's a fantastic thing and it's well worth the expense, but I would say that because it's my business, but I do, we met, we've, we never have anybody with regrets, right?

[12:02] Because the only way is up, the only way is simplification, organization, less stress, saving money, and that's the nice thing. You start to really see the benefits of that immediately.

[12:14] Ian: And obviously you're, biased, but I brought you onto the podcast, for, because you are an expert in this. And also, I've hired one of your, declutterers and it's been the most experience, which I'll talk about, but let's be real about it for a lot of people. The process of actually hiring a professional. Is hard. Like I was, I had to go through quite like an emotional rollercoaster to get to the point of doing that because like it feels it brought up all those feelings. I'm just lazy. I'm lazy. I just need to do it, and hire, paying money.

[12:56] It's that's just what posh people do. There's the expense, I could be spending money on the family. All of those things were going through my brain. Now, I know I'm not alone in this. What are the kind of things that are going through people's brains in that process? And what would you say?

[13:14] Because I obviously, I now know that all of those are, they're not helpful thoughts. They're not true. But can you address some of those concerns that people have?

[13:25] Lesley: Yeah, I think, people are. People who have had clutter or disorganization in their life have typically been judged in one way or another for some or all of their life. So they will have been told they were lazy kids by the parents, probably, they might have problems in their relationships with their partners.

[13:45] their kids might be embarrassed to bring people home. And so there's a level of judgment that goes alongside that. And so you think it's just going to be more of the same. So you're, that's how your clutter has manifested itself. And so you think that's going to continue and that a professional organizer is there just to declutter stuff.

[14:03] And that's not what it is. So as I've mentioned, they're very much going to work collaboratively with you to bring positive changes to your life. There's no judgment from a professional organizer. one of the things that I say to clients all the time is If you don't have clutter, we don't have a job.

[14:18] We love what we do. We love making positive transformational changes to people's lives because we don't want clutter to hold people back. And it invariably does. And so we want it for you. We will not judge you and we will not make you make a decision that is against what you want to do. We will, we may say to you, what's your goal?

[14:38] And if the decisions that you're making with the stuff that you have doesn't represent where you want to be with your goal, we may say to you, That's great. You can keep that. Of course you can, do whatever you want to do, but just know that you won't achieve your goal. And so you will need to do it in a more phased approach.

[14:55] So there's a very sort of measured approach with a professional. And, we know when to stop. We know when it's too much. We know when decision fatigue is setting in, we understand timing, we understand logistics, all of those kinds of things come in because We've we understand the human mind and how it manifests with clutter.

[15:15] So it can be, we love it. any professional organizer loves the job that they do, but it's really important to find the right ones. You have to gel with them because you're spending a lot of time one to one with them. So do your homework on a professional, I would say.

[15:30] Ian: You do and it's interesting. I think of the big descriptions of a declutterer professional declutterer is you almost have to be a psychologist because you have to be able to read the person because there is that fatigue. I find at the end of a day. I'm really excited. I'm relieved about what we've done, but I'm also exhausted.

[15:52] I do have to lie down. not in a bad way, but it just feels like that. But, big shout out to Bev who is, my declutter. She's been amazing. And, we've, I've now got my whole office organized. I've got this whole night. If you're watching the video, I've got this kind of Ikea Kallax system. I've got all of my items, in there, like gear. And I've got them all on, I use a tool called Notion. So I've got them all there. So I know where everything is. I'll actually put a little link to the episode where I was on your podcast, Lesley. And, I go into a lot more detail there, with that, because we don't have time to go through all of that now. but yeah, I think finding the right declutter is helpful. And obviously this, we have a lot of, in the UK, but also internationally in the U S. So what, where, is a good. Place to find declutter. Is it? Is it like a database? Do we look on the internet? What's a good way of finding people?

[16:56] Lesley: Yeah. So the association of professional declutterers and organizers appdo. co. uk is the database of people who have signed up to, it's not a regulated industry as such, we've got codes of ethics and things like that because it's important. There's a lot of people out there who were just about.

[17:14] And that's not what most professional organizers are about. And so appdo. co. uk, you can click on find an organizer. You find someone close to you. Napo is the, US equivalent, of us. And they've got people all over the US and POC in Canada. There's an Australian one. So most countries around the world, English speaking countries that might be listening to your podcast.

[17:36] There is, A database of professional organizers there that you can find, but it's really important to, as I said, to find somebody that gels with you. So listen to what people are saying, make sure that they're aligned. They understand where you're coming from and that they're saying the right things in those consultations and things like that, a professional organizer needs to give you the time.

[17:59] They should be listening to what you're saying rather than saying, what they want to say. Really, important. Empathy is everything. I'm lucky enough now to have eight people on my team and when people apply to be part of the Clutter Fairy, if there's talk of tidying shelves and of course we want people to be able to tidy shelves as well.

[18:19] but that's not what it's about. We're all, we want people, that make sense. People understand people. That's what it's all about.

[18:25] Ian: Yeah. And we had Sarah rug on the show talking about, virtual assistants who understand your divergent people ADHD. So I think an understanding of that and the way our brains work is obviously really helpful.

[18:39] Lesley: And Sarah Rugg actually, Sarah Rugg works for, Sarah Rugg is the administrator for the Association of Professional Declutters and Organisers.

[18:48] Ian: I never knew that.

[18:49] Lesley: I know, there you go, there it is.

[18:53] Ian: a small world., so there's so many, so much more I want to talk to you about. I wanted to talk about your, personal experience before we, we could go onto the digital side of things. I know we're short for time, but I know that your, your son has ADHD and that's been kind of part of your journey. will link to the episode. So if you can let me know, the episode, because he, you actually had him on your podcast to talk about that. people are interested in hearing deeper and more story about that, then definitely listen to that episode. But can you maybe give us a like a brief, introduction into that and how that's a, how that's affected him and also you in terms of your understanding of ADHD and organization.

[19:34] Lesley: Yeah, I think it was really, it was interesting for me because obviously I've worked with people within my decluttering role with ADHD for a long time, but I completely missed it. So Luke wasn't diagnosed until he was about 23, I think it was. And I was his person. So when you go through an ADHD diagnosis, you in principle have somebody who has known you for a long time, who goes through what they feel your traits were as a child and things like that.

[19:59] Yeah. So I was very involved in the process of his diagnosis. And so that really taught me a lot just going through the questionnaires and stuff taught me a lot about that and understanding how it manifests in terms of, the ADHD itself, he's managing really well, he's on medication now, he's put great strategies in place, but I think it's understanding how that made him feel and sat alongside that ADHD, feeling of self loathing.

[20:27] Worthlessness, the depression, the anxiety, all of those things were, gave me such a deeper understanding of ADHD, cause I think what I'd done, I'd looked at it from an organizational perspective and how I could help and how we could label things and what kind of, how to eradicate barriers with, with clients and things like that, but I'd never really, and I'd obviously come across a lot of people, but just understanding at a much deeper level and in that podcast, Luke is very honest and open about, The depths that he sank to if we're being honest, and particularly as he came out of a place of structure.

[21:02] So for him, he feels that he came out of a place of structure when he left here because obviously I was very structured as we were structured as a family. And once he went to university all went wrong, because the lack of structure was not there. And that's when, he started to really struggle and see it.

[21:16] Ian: Yeah, it's interesting to, in some ways people with ADHD, we, want we want fun and exciting things and flexibility. that's partly why I think I've gone into entrepreneurship, running my own business. I love that. But we also need structure as well. You need both of those things, so you need to have a structure in place that then allows you to have that freedom and flexibility, I think.

[21:42] And, I think, In a way, I think this is why decluttering and organising is so good for everyone really, but particularly those of us with ADHD, because if you have that structure around you, it then allows you to be creative. Do you think there's some truth in that?

[21:58] Lesley: Oh, 100%, 100%. It's got to be, what it's got to be is the right structure. decluttering an organization is, absolutely pivotal to, to, to working with ADHD in your life, but you have to work out what's going to work for you. What we don't want is micro organizing. So we don't want organizational systems that are too difficult to maintain, because that's going to mean that you're just going to procrastinate over that.

[22:21] So. it's all about identifying those barriers, really, that we have, with paperwork, finding a paperwork system that's going to work for us. And, so a lever arch file might work for one person, but it might not work for somebody else. even the Kanban method, for example, which you probably have heard about, in ADHD, where you put post it notes on the wall and things like that.

[22:41] for Luke, for people my age, a lot of people will work with that because he used to work in things like that. And he's no, it's gotta be on a computer or nothing. So I've got to find something. So it's, really interesting finding different methodology and it's. It's different depending on who you are, what makes you tick, so interesting and it's a neurodivergent brain.

[23:00] So ADHD manifests very differently for different people. And this is not a one type of ADHD and that's how it is for everybody. It's very different.

[23:11] Ian: that's true. There are many different types of people. with ADHD. There's different, there's a many, I always get this wrong. There are as many types of ADHD as there are people with ADHD is what I was

[23:21] Lesley: Yeah.

[23:21] Ian: But yeah, it's so, you did mention like digital moving over to digital. And what's interesting is I definitely think digitally, but I've also realized I need to There's something about the physicality of writing things down that also helps.

[23:35] So it's trying to get that balance, but let's move on just briefly onto clutter because so many of us now have devices, we might have like Kindles and iPhones and Android phones and tablets and computers. And some of us are even using like cloud storage, Dropbox, Google drive, and our files are all over the place.

[23:54] And it's just a nightmare. Digital is supposed to help us, isn't it? With our decluttering, but sometimes it can be this huge dumping ground. So what are your thoughts on this? Have you got any strategies that can help us with our digital clutter?

[24:11] Lesley: Simplification is everything when it comes to digital clutter. And you gave an example before about, bank statements, for example, you were like, I've got banks, this was paper based clutter and you go, Oh, it's all online anyway. And so we really need to think about that. Why are we getting to, this is not a critic, it sounds like a criticism here.

[24:31] If you don't need two versions of that, work out which one works best for you. Do you know what I mean? Cause if you're popping into your app every now and again, then that's good enough. Do you know what I mean? And try and strip out the excess of digital, emails. It's ridiculous, isn't it?

[24:48] I consciously make an effort every day. sometimes something will come through. I said, we, we in the entrepreneur world, we're constantly signing up for free stuff, newsletters, all of that kind of stuff. If we buy something from a shop, we get put on a mailing list. All of those kinds of things are just, it's just noise and simplify it right down.

[25:07] If you want to find that, we'll find it. if people will have written about it somewhere. And so it's about making that positive sort of effort every day while you're going through your email inbox, going, do you know what I've seen that email pop up every single day, if the entrepreneurs are doing the, doing it right and sending emails every day and things like that.

[25:27] But really, I'm not reading them. I'm just literally delete, delete, delete, and if you even delete, because what we know is that people have got, the biggest one, the biggest inbox I ever saw was 120, 000. And that was indeed somebody with ADHD, but it can be eradicated.

[25:45] But it takes a, there's a process involved in that, but it involves, permanent effort, consistent effort to get it to, it, sorry, it involves a big, initial effort, and then it involves ongoing effort to maintain that system right down, because we've got stuff coming in all the time, I love nothing more than tackling an email inbox. interestingly, we have the Clutter Fairy, our, core decluttering and organizing business. But recently we also, we've got, I've got a sort of split sister business called Life Admin. And that's all about digital decluttering and things like that.

[26:20] it's because we see the need for people, certainly with, that are neurodiverse and things like that in particular, that need to get on, top of their digital decluttering. And Yeah, it's, a big job, but once it's done, but you've got to be committed to that unsubscribe because we all have that FOMO, right?

[26:36] We feel like we're going to miss out. And so we keep, it coming. Keep it coming in.

[26:41] Ian: making everything digital isn't necessarily everything the only problem with digital bank statements is you don't look at them. And so I'll give you an example. My car, a car, and I got a new one, last year. I just realized a week ago, I'd forgotten to cancel the car insurance on the old car. So I've been paying 25 a month for almost a year. And the guy, rather unhelpfully said, cause I said, look, it's probably my fault. It's just frustrating. And he said, it's really important that you look at your bank statements all the time, to make sure that, yes, but it made me think all digital and do look at my bank statement, but not probably in the same detail as I would do if I actually physically got it through the post and looked at it. so maybe, for you actually getting it through the post is a good thing and then shred it. Might not be good for the environment, but it might be good for your brain. So it's working that out. And then, email. One of the things I love about Gmail in particular is that you can set up all these filters.

[27:45] So I have a filter that if it has the word unsubscribe in it, it goes to a an almost like my newsletter. So it's all automatic and I can go in there and I can, yes, then, I can think about, am I actually reading that? I might need to cancel that. that's been really helpful.

[28:04] Setting up filters, I think can be really helpful with email try and declutter So I try and have a. It's a pseudo, inbox zero, on there, but I do work with my, with an assistant who goes in there and helps. so yeah, so much to suck. we could do a whole topic, a

[28:24] Lesley: Oh yeah,

[28:25] Ian: on email.

[28:26] Couldn't we?

[28:27] Lesley: absolutely. Yeah. But, again, it's really important to start at the beginning. And it's all about behaviors and connection and understanding why, you feel a compulsion to keep every email that comes in and understanding, particularly if we're talking about physical clutter as well, what that represents.

[28:43] you're seeing opportunity to buy, all the time. And if we are weak and, for, all of their kind of marketing advice, of course we're gonna buy. And it is just more stuff. And so we have to start at the beginning and then build up to where you are and where. You can start really utilizing tech to its, real benefit and putting filters in and having inbox zeros.

[29:05] But for a lot of people, it's like starting at the beginning and going, first of all, I need to clear the backlog,

[29:11] Ian: Absolutely. Yeah. And there's a few other things just that have popped up my brain that have helped me that maybe help other people. And that is, just get rid of most notifications on your phone. So I've only got like text messages and the odd WhatsApp group. that but most of them I've got rid of because that interruption is just digital declutter. other thing that I've just recently found that you can do this on the, on, on iPhones, which sounds weird, you can actually go into accessibility and change it to black and white. So your phone becomes black and white. It's monochrome and all those little red numbers on the apps that say you've got 50,

[29:55] Lesley: oh yeah, that's

[29:57] Ian: notifications, they don't look red anymore.

[29:59] They look gray and they look. It's less stressful and you're not going to go in them as much. So apparently for people with ADHD, this really helps. And so I've got a little kind of key on the back, on the side of my phone. I just triple tap the button and it goes black and white. And do you know what?

[30:16] It really helps. It's,

[30:18] Lesley: really interesting. Yeah,

[30:19] Ian: like things like Facebook or TikTok or whatever you use. They lose, they feel less, you feel like you don't have to click on them so much. And that's the other thing I'd say, just remove those apps from your home screen. So it's a, it takes a little bit more effort to get, to them. that's, that certainly helped me. Thank

[30:40] Lesley: That's, really good advice.

[30:41] Ian: much. Lesley's been great.

[30:43] Lesley: Oh, you're very welcome.

[30:44] Ian: it's, all these little, things. So yeah, thank you so much for coming on the show. All of the, stuff we've been talked about will be in the show notes. and of course people can connect with you on the socials and on through the web.

[30:59] What was the best place for people to connect with you?

[31:02] Lesley: Yeah. professional organizing wise in the Northwest, clutterfairy.co.Uk. I've got life admin as well. and then, if you want to listen to free advice, we've got declutterhub. com. We've got 300 and odd podcasts, all about things, many things about digital decluttering and physical decluttering as well.

[31:20] So just search for the declutterhub podcast or declutterhub in any of our socials and you will find us.

[31:26] Ian: Thanks so much, Lesley. It's been great to have you back on the show. I hope you have found this interesting in the way that I have. I've learned so much. I'm very excited about implementing some new processes. And of course, if you are struggling, don't struggle alone, do seek professional help, whether that's through coaching, through therapist or it might be hiring a declutterer, a professional declutterer is what you need.

[31:51] So all of the information will be in the show notes about that. But until next time, I encourage you to be smart with your ADHD. Toodaloo.

[31:59] ​