Smart ADHD Stories with Daniel Nestle

[00:00:00] Dan: I'm able to take a step back and go, okay, I see I'm getting bored with that, but this rabbit hole is really exciting. Then I have the capability to say, but I still have to do this stuff that I don't like, and what I found is that just understanding that, Is, the first step
[00:00:12] If you're building a relationship, it's about two people, or whatever the relationship might be. And just the idea of giving it time to breathe, It sounds like the simplest thing, but such a game changer.
[00:00:21] many of the creative people that we know have ADHD have an ADHD mind that hyper focus, that creativity, that ability to connect dots, the things that you see things that people don't see most people with ADHD, do have this kind of broad view of everything around them and will notice things that know a bit nobody else does.
[00:00:40] Ian: Welcome to another smart ADHD stories episode. And this time I'm joined by my friend Daniel Nestle who is an award winning communications executive podcaster and author named to the PR week magazine dashboard 24 awarding the top 25 movers and shakers and communications technology.
[00:01:01] Born and raised in New Jersey, Dan spent 16 years in Japan and speaks Japanese. Dan and his wife are proud parents to two incredible daughters and parents to two lovable hounds. He currently hosts the Trending Communicator podcast. And again, this is an Smart ADHD Stories episode when we delve deep into the life stories of other fellow smart ADHDers who are successful business owners, creatives, entrepreneurs.
[00:01:29] It's a raw episode. Unedited. Let's get on with it. Right now.
[00:01:33] Hello, I'm Ian Anderson Gray, and this is the smart ADHD podcast.
[00:01:48] Now if you're a smart, creative entrepreneur or business owner navigating your life with ADHD, This is the podcast for you. Now, I'm no ADHD expert, but I'm eager to share my story on what I've learned by talking with experts, as well as digging into the personal ADHD stories of successful creatives and entrepreneurs.
[00:02:10] I was diagnosed at age 46, and it answered so many questions in my life. But of course, that was in many ways, only the start of my journey. So let's learn together. Smart stories, smart strategies, smart ADHD.
[00:02:38] Hi, Dan, welcome to the show. How are you doing?
[00:02:41] Dan: Ian, it is awesome to be here. I'm so glad you're doing this show. And, I, don't know, I'm fairly, I'm flattered that you're having me on. It's a, it's, really cool.
[00:02:48] Ian: I'm excited. We've been talking for quite a while. We know each other from Mark Schaefer's Rise community. I'm trying to find like a phrase to explain what the Rise community is. it's a community of really smart marketing people. Marketers, and it's most of, the time.
[00:03:09] and there's loads of like amazing opportunities that happen in there. There's, I've been in a, like in Metaverse, I think I gave a talk in the Metaverse. There's been a book that's been part of that as well. What else would you say about the Rise community? Yeah.
[00:03:24] Dan: as an experimental group, I think, of people who are, of marketers who had been in Mark Schaefer's orbit. And Mark, set forth on this project. he's all about community and building community in his book, belonging to the brand, right?
[00:03:42] I was all about that. And as a side effort to that, and coming out of the uprising, which is a, 30 person retreat that mark runs once a year in Tennessee. we decided to just run an experiment and see if we could build a community. It was originally based on web three and crypto, right?
[00:04:06] not not crypto trading, but the idea of tokens and coins. so it's like just maybe 20 or 30 of us started that off and it quickly became apparent that there's a lot of knowledge running that's being floated around and tossed around. And it's a great place to share and talk about things.
[00:04:28] And we had remarkably open people. So I think. Even though it was originally designed to be a learning community as well, it actually leaned more and more into learning and into sharing than into web three. And then, within a year of starting rise, the Token creator, economy, tokenized world, all that kind of stuff crashed.
[00:04:54] And that left us in a very good position because we could, we no longer needed to rely on this whole idea of you need tokens, and you could focus in on, we have all these, and by that point it was maybe a, a hundred or so, or 200 people who are just. solopreneurs, entrepreneurs, corporate marketers, communicators.
[00:05:17] This group of people had this really wide range of knowledge to share. And we just became that a sharing community and it's grown organically. something would be topical and it would become a discussion thread and then it would become a discussion room. and now, after a couple of years, it's only been, it's, I think we're heading into year three.
[00:05:41] it is by far the best. Resource for figuring out what's going on right now and probably five steps into the future with marketing and communications, especially around new technologies. A. I, the metaverse is still there. and if I ever want to know anything about metaverse, I can check out rise.
[00:06:05] But, there's like AI, there's, podcasting, personal branding, general future of marketing, social media, these topics keep bubbling up. And then what was remarkable, I thought, forgive me if I bounce around because, this is the ADHD podcast after all, so you're going to have to bear with me.
[00:06:30] But, what was remarkable about all this is that, you have this core of. Of people who maybe I've met once or twice or just at least or maybe met only through rise, but instantly had this sort of connection because we do all share this passion for learning and for uplifting one another, not by, not on purpose, but definitely by design, I think, but not on purpose.
[00:06:57] Like it's amazing how the laws of attraction work and attracts but you have, you have all these people are just giving, Giving them the sales game of knowledge, and they just became this killer resource. So now, it's it has grown into a couple of 100 people, who are dedicated to improving the profession, improving the craft, improving our own knowledge, helping one another.
[00:07:23] You mentioned a book. We, we, also experiment, right? So it's an experimental community. So anytime there's something new on the horizon, we just We split off an informal group and just do it. So we did. We did one of the first ever community driven books that was not written with one word of a eyes before I even was hit the mainstream.
[00:07:45] But the most amazing marketing book ever you mentioned, right? And that's how we met. that was a fantastic experiment that turned out to be a wonderful, book. And Now we're doing some group work with, making AI, we're building a prompting resource and a prompting library, for example, within the community, just for four people in the community.
[00:08:07] So these are the kinds of things that we do. It is a learning resource. It's a professional development resource, a friendship resource. And then, very last thing I will say, and I promise is I think it was the remarkable thing I was leaning towards is this whole idea of the marketing mindset or the marketer's mindset.
[00:08:25] And I think you've been really active on that thread. and that's one of the ways that we discovered, other people who, who do struggle with. challenges with, with, whether it's ADHD or, anxiety or depression or what have you, it's a, very safe space within the community where we can talk about it, how it affects our, roles and, how it affects, even, our, marketing or how it is a superpower for us, but it's a, it is a, It's a remarkably safe and free space to, to connect with people who are like us, not just in the fact that we have the profession, but also the human side of our lives, we tend to share quite a few things.
[00:09:14] So, I've really loved that about rise. And I know that's not a very short encapsulation of what it is, because it's impossible, but it's a, great community, a learning community for marketers and communicators that I would recommend to anyone.
[00:09:25] Ian: Yeah, it's impossible to summarize it so quickly. I think that's why I was struggling to do that. And then you just very, that was a fantastic explanation of it. And, there's this age old saying, isn't it, that if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. And I feel that in the RISE community, I'm definitely in the right room, because that's what I do.
[00:09:45] There are so many amazingly smart people, but it's not just the collective intelligence of everybody. And it is the generosity. It is the, you mentioned it being a safe space. So you can, to a certain extent, be quite vulnerable. There's that encouragement there. And, It's it shows you really that social media I think has really changed because now it's not really so much of a safe space anymore, there might have been maybe four or five years ago.
[00:10:16] I would have been quite open on social media. That's not really the best place. I think anymore. It's these communities like rise where you can be with other like minded people. You can grow together. the community. It's the name rise. We're all rising together. We all help each other rise, which is amazing.
[00:10:33] So and you Yeah, you mentioned the fact that there's the mindset channel. So this it's all on discord and they that's a place where people can be really quite open about their struggles as well because there are We all, whether you are or whatever the phrases are, neurotypical or neurodivergent or whatever, you, whatever you, whatever.
[00:10:54] However your brain works. There are always gonna be struggles. And I think in this world where we feel less connected, ironically, 'cause you'd think we'd be more connected. We need these kind of communities much, much more. Yeah. I think so.
[00:11:10] Dan: I was talking with Mark about that at some point. And Mark Schaefer, like I said, is the rise started Mark Schaefer's orbit. And Mark is definitely the heart of rise. It's his brand in many ways. But you talk about being the smartest person room. There's no question that Mark is one of the smartest people I know.
[00:11:29] but he never comes across as the smartest person in the room. And in fact, one of the reasons why we love rise so much is because yeah, we've, moved from this place where everybody I think was in it originally to, oh, let's hear what Mark Schaefer has to say. And very quickly we were predisposed of the notion that Mark was anything different than us.
[00:11:51] And now he's a peer. he runs the show. But there's no question that, even the marketing. Glitterati like Mark or, there's a few other folks in the community who are named, who are well known people. everybody's on the level, everybody's the same, learning from one another and making, pronouncements that aren't quite correct and getting called out on it in a very polite and nice way.
[00:12:24] but, but I've really enjoyed that whole, part of it. And you mentioned it was an, it's on discord. It's another key thing, right? And it's why we can probably be more open is because, you can't as marketers, everybody out there should understand that it's dark social, right?
[00:12:41] And not in a, and dark in a negative or disparaging way. It's dark in that you, it's not open to search. It's not available to anybody who doesn't have access. So it's about as private as you can get on, these kinds of, on social media platforms.
[00:12:57] Ian: Yeah, definitely. it's, I just love that part of it. And I think it shows you how much we need those communities, whether it is a physical community of people around you cheerleaders, encouragers, that kind of thing. People that you can rely on. I think we all need that. But what rise does is it connects us worldwide.
[00:13:20] you're, in the U S I'm in the UK. There are people from all around the world. and I hope my hope is that the smart ADHD podcast, becomes a community, because I want this to be. Again, a safe space, a place where we can all learn together. As I keep on mentioning on this podcast, I am not an ADHD expert.
[00:13:41] I'm, learning and I make mistakes. That's another, the other thing that you said that Sometimes we, I think often we learn from our mistakes most of the time. So sometimes we have to say things and it comes out all wrong. Sometimes we notice that and we think, Oh, that wasn't the best way of explaining that.
[00:13:58] And, but other, sometimes other people will say, actually, Ian, that's probably not the best way of explaining it. It's this way we can all learn together on, on that. But Dan, I want to let's, steer the conversation into the world of. into your world, really. and I'd love to hear about your journey, but with ADHD, that's what we talk about on this podcast.
[00:14:23] And we're going to talk about how it's influenced, how it impacts your personal life and in your business. I'm really interested to hear some of the things, the way you navigate in, terms of your, work and your business and social media, and the fact that communicate communication and email is so, much stuff that we have to deal with these days.
[00:14:45] But. When did you first realize that there was, you were different in some way. So you might not have known it was ADHD, but there was something about you that maybe was a little bit different. Yeah.
[00:15:07] Dan: incredibly dangerously procrastinator, procrastinative, I don't know what the proper noun is, but in fact, I, my, my mug here, and I asked Ian before we got on the show, if, explicit language was possible. And this is the only reason why I asked is because I carry a mug that says, stop f***-ing procrastinating.
[00:15:28] And, hopefully I'll be the only F bomb on the show. I, just noticed that I was always procrastinating. and it never really harmed me. In fact, I would say I work better under pressure. I, know I need that pressure to, really turn out the best product. And that was true through high school.
[00:15:53] It's true through college. It was true everywhere up, until today, almost. and then, I managed to just get through everything that way. I never missed anything. I never, didn't finish a project and I know that a lot of people who do suffer with ADHD have such severe crippling, problems that, that it does cause them to lose, lose their job or causes them to, miss a project or something, that's not quite pleasant, but I've always been able to get to the, To the finish line.
[00:16:31] So probably because I've always been able to get to the finish line. I never thought there was a problem. I just thought that. Oh, yeah, I'm a procrastinator. Give me a label. and then, these things tend to build over time. Over a very long time. And when you have other stressors in your life is when you start to notice or other people notice for you.
[00:16:53] That, that, wait a second, maybe I should go talk to somebody. So what happened, I think, in my case, is, life pressure, family pressure, that sort of thing, when I was, I don't know, about 15 or so years ago, maybe a little longer than that, I was, not quite 15 years ago, I was living in Japan.
[00:17:17] And, the whole world's crashing around us because of the financial crisis at the time, right? It was, the, Lehman, they called it the Lehman shock in Japan, but we know what happened in 20, 2007 and eight. and I was working, at a global recruitment firm. The, firm was then just turned into this whole downsizing operation where we were just getting rid of everybody went from 120 people to 25 in a matter of weeks.
[00:17:45] And The end result of that was either, either I had to, also lose my job or because I was a marketing manager and marketing PR manager who knew a thing or two about Japan and Asia. It's like, why don't you just move to Australia? And in Australia you can take on the same role. they're not having the same problems there.
[00:18:10] so it's your choice. You can move to Australia with Robert with the company, or you could, you could just stay in Japan and roll the dice. So I moved to Australia, massive move. And, you, look at these things, and it's another part of, I think, ADHD in retrospect is this idea that the grass is always greener, that, okay, the new thing is the good thing.
[00:18:33] So I was so excited about moving to Australia. I moved to Australia. I had a, very young family at the time. They're still, I still think they're young, but, I had a, in, basically an infant, almost, a toddler and a, pre kindergarten, daughters, right? and my wife. And, yeah, I moved down there and they followed me and the role, didn't It was, very hard to work.
[00:19:06] it was just very hard to get used to this whole new culture. It was difficult to, to build trust among my colleagues where, I'd been in Japan for so long. I know how to build trust with Japanese folks, but this wily room of Aussies and, and, Brits, because a lot of British expats there, I was at a loss, and it didn't really, go well for me from a social standpoint.
[00:19:36] and that started to bleed into my work. and, there were other dynamics at play, but I started noticing like, I was just angry to go to work every day. Or I was like, I can't, I'm not gonna, this is not gonna work. This is not gonna work. And I started to get these really dark, thoughts about it, not in terms of self harm or anything like that, but Just really pessimistic, out, very, like I did not have a good outlook about the way that things were going to go.
[00:20:09] I had the most beautiful commute in the world and I was, I don't know if you've been to, Sydney. But, I lived in the northern, suburbs in a place called Fairlight. Little bit of heaven on earth. I would walk down to the ferry from Manly. I would take the ferry into the central business district of Sydney every day.
[00:20:28] for having me. Bar none, it is the most beautiful 25 or 30 minute commute on earth, right? Going through Sydney Harbor, whales, dolphins, Emperor peng, not Emperor, whatever it is, the little penguins, fairy penguins. I should have loved it, but I hated every minute of it. And I was like, this is not when I started seeing dolphins and going, I don't like my life.
[00:20:50] I knew there's something wrong. and things weren't going well at work. So my wife and I had a chat and. I had to, do something about it. So I went to see a counselor for first time in my life and I used the employee program and the counselor said, mate, and I'm not going to try the accent, but he said, mate, he said, you're depressed, you're in a situation that's not good for you.
[00:21:19] you have seasonal affective disorder because you came from Japan, which was, it, I came at the end of winter. into Australia, which is heading into winter. So I hadn't experienced a summer in, I skipped a summer essentially. he said, so you have, you're depressed about this.
[00:21:40] You have, and these environmental triggers are making a bubble up. So, that was the first time I ever realized that I have this, issue. And, I didn't, even though I did some, talk therapy at the time and was talking to this fellow, in the end. I couldn't, make it work for me in Australia.
[00:22:01] It was just, I didn't have a network of friends and support that would help. and all the things that I know now that would have helped, I didn't have it in place. So I moved back to the states with my family and started a fresh and started a new and things are going great, and that's again, the thing with ADHD and with all these other issues that we may have is that you start something new and it feels like everything's been solved and you move on, right?
[00:22:28] And then, years later, and it was, I started to realize that a reliable cycle of three or four years, then I would start to be like, things aren't working out great. Things aren't working out well or whatever. I had a, I was, at this job. I was, doing well in the job.
[00:22:45] but things weren't like sitting with me, right? Felt, I felt crushed, like there was something wrong. and. I left that job. I got recruited to go into another job. So I thought, okay, everything's gonna get great again. And things didn't get great when I got into the new job. New job was really stressful and difficult and challenging.
[00:23:06] And I had a very difficult situation with leadership on my team. things that I would normally be able to handle, I think, in a, like today. But at that time, I didn't know what's going on. And I, again, went to see, A doctor and we took this quiz and the doctor said, man, you have anxiety.
[00:23:31] So I'm like, okay, I had depression, anxiety. And then I told the doctor, I was once, counselor once told me you've, I was, depressed. He said, I think you're, you have a, you have an anxiety issue as well. okay, what's going on here? All these things, they're starting to pile up. So I started to, take medicine for that and do treatment and all this kind of stuff.
[00:23:57] And things got better for a while, and that's the way it goes. and then finally, years later, so as, and, I, within a little while, I turned things around again, and I was, in a very good mental place, and, I got another great job, and things are going super well, and then, I realized, again, at some point, when another, and again, we're talking about a huge environmental stressors start to happen. And in this case, it was right around the time of the pandemic, right? So we're talking, 2020. when, okay, we're, all of a sudden, we're stuck at home and it wasn't a big deal to work from home for me. I'd been working remote for a long time, but, I was like, I'm not motivated to do anything. Like what's going on here. And then I'd get requests from my boss or somebody and there was never any like real urgency because nobody knew what was going on at this particular time. And I would do the work, but I would always feel like what's going like this isn't, I feel like I'm just like I was procrastinating, of course, but I felt like I was like, just not having any, satisfaction.
[00:25:15] It was totally unrewarded, even when I'd finished an assignment. So I started seeing all these, all these, this is when I think, Those online, maybe the laws changed or something and you start seeing all these get diagnosed with for ADHD online everywhere. So I did one or two of those quizzes and it's you have ADHD, I'm like, I don't have ADHD.
[00:25:37] I may be anxiety, maybe a little depression, but so I had made an appointment with one of those online, I was, a sucker. I'm an Instagram sucker. I, love Instagram ads. They love me. So I, went through like this whole process and of course this, nurse practitioner said, you do have ADHD.
[00:25:57] So they gave me Adderall. And, it was like, congratulations. Here's your Adderall. That's how I felt, And, I start, so I started taking the Adderall and all I felt was jittery, but I didn't feel any of the underlying things changing. so I stopped taking Adderall and I went to, and I went to a real doctor this time and my real doctor said, okay, let's do this for real.
[00:26:22] And we went through some assessments. I went to a psychiatrist. I went through the whole, like I did, I don't know how many, like 180 page intake for, for a proper, evaluation. And, I'm glad I did that. because in the end. Everything that, like I said, it's cumulative and everything that I've, been talking about, up until this point where there was depression, there was anxiety, all true, but it's all part of this combined type ADHD that I was diagnosed with, with a very, with a really nice side dose side dish of anxiety.
[00:27:06] so now with proper, proper counseling and proper psychiatric assistance, I've definitely been able to get a good handle on it. But it's also really just knowing what this is has changed a lot about the way that I'm able to see what's happening in my life and understand the signs and go, Okay, I know where I'm at now, I know which phase of my kind of cycle it is, and because it for me, it does come and go in cycles, and I was able to get a grip on it.
[00:27:41] and the funny thing is that I learned that. this is something that's been with me all my life and that procrastination I kept talking about just to come full circle was my anxiety kicking in, right? So because of ADHD and because I had the anxiety to really, give it a nice, good, solid foundation, the anxiety actually tempered it.
[00:28:05] And that's why I was able to complete and never, that's why I always finished my assignments and did everything proper is because, I'd get to the very end of the near to near the deadline. The anxiety would go into overdrive and I would really have to get things done. But if I never had an anxiety or disorder or whatever you want to call it, who knows?
[00:28:26] I might just be, I might have just been homeless at some point. I don't know. Like the anxiety combined with the HD has turned out to be actually, not a terrible thing for my productivity.
[00:28:41] Ian: Yeah, it's, I'm very similar to you and I think I've used ADA, sorry, I've used anxiety as a kind of a tool to, get me to do things, it kicks in. The problem is it doesn't always kick in until the last minute because you're procrastinating and then you use the fact that it needed to be in yesterday or the day after or whatever to then kick stuff, so the anxiety then kicks in.
[00:29:03] And, this is something that, guest on the show, Tamara Razia, who's written My Brain, Your Brain's Not Broken. She talks about the six bad tools that we kind of use. Anxiety is one of them. Procrastination is another anger. And I've found at different points in my life that anxiety almost isn't enough for certain things.
[00:29:23] So I then I pull out another thing, it might be a bit of self loathing today or something like that. And so it's, that's what I was going to ask you. Yeah, so like, how is, in terms of getting stuff done, you've mentioned anxiety and it's, I think it's interesting, a lot of people with ADHD also struggle with anxiety too.
[00:29:45] Are there any other kind of tricks that are perhaps negative that you've used over the years to get you to do stuff like that? You've mentioned anxiety and
[00:29:54] Dan: Yeah. I, I, it's hard to tell because, certainly anxiety's been a crutch, I guess in, in many ways. I didn't realize it, so I'm sure there is, there are a few things I've been doing and habits I've had in my life that, I might not even be aware of that have been, ways for me to get through things.
[00:30:17] But I think one thing is that is I've chosen as my area of focus or areas of focus, things that are very, ADHD is quite conducive to like, so I don't know if this is so strategic in any way, or if it's a trick or a tool, because it's certainly not that it's just that, let's take, for example, artificial intelligence, AI.
[00:30:48] So Jen AI, it's happening right now that everybody's so hip and keen on, right? For a person like me with my particular mix of anxiety and ADHD, plus whatever knowledge I have, right? I saw, This come on the horizon and I was like, this is it. This is me. I love this. And I've said this like about different technologies in the past, but I jump on this and get a really deep, initial grasp of this bright, shiny, new object.
[00:31:22] Like in this case with AI, for example, it has incredibly positive implications for my career and knowing more about it has been. Has been a boon and a benefit and is certainly, where I plan to go with my, whatever time I have left as a professional, until the next thing, but the tendency, I think, to look at these new things and dig deep and get knowledge has been a, I guess it falls under this whole idea a, tactic or trick, That has helped me to, move forward in my life and succeed. And that is, I owe that, I think, a lot to, ADHD in that, I see something new and it's very easy to focus on it and hyper focus on it for a short time at least and get, ahead of the game. Staying ahead is a whole separate story, right?
[00:32:23] But, being ahead is a good thing. Yeah.
[00:32:24] Ian: It is. I share your excitement with AI. I think partly, yes, it is a new shiny technology. But also, I think there are so many ways in which AI can help the issues that I struggle with ADHD, remembering things and storing information and summarizing long documents, things like that, which that, that really excites me.
[00:32:47] But you mentioned quite a few things there that remind me about the, that I see ADHD. There are so many kind of characteristics or traits with ADHD that are both A blessing and a curse at the same time. So like going down the rabbit hole, following your curiosity. these are you could argue superpowers of ADHD, but equally that is you perhaps getting distracted and you should be doing the, this, the stuff over here, which is really boring, like your accounts or whatever it is for you.
[00:33:17] And, but over there, there's this really new, exciting thing. And I've, looked at my. My career and actually the times when I've really done my best work have been when I've gone down that rabbit hole but I've equally realized that there are so many other things that I then drop and then That and then my business kind of suffers a little bit with that as well.
[00:33:38] So my question to you is how has ADHD How has you realizing that you have ADHD? Helped you view your challenges and your strengths. So you've mentioned both actually. We started off with the negative stuff, I think, quite a bit. And you've mentioned a few positives. So I'm interested in both sides.
[00:34:00] Dan: let me address what you were just mentioning about how, the, that going down the rabbit hole gets to be the fun part and the stuff you need to do is the part that you get bored of and you let it drop. the key to I think, managing that, not only just under, like being mindful and understanding, getting the sort of counseling and treatment or awareness of yourself that you need to know.
[00:34:29] To see the signs that those are happening and be able to be a grown up and say, okay, I have to, you can overcome any behavior by understanding what the behavior is encountering it, right? You're a human being, you have free will to do such things. This is not, we're not talking about a, compulsive disorder, although I'm sure there are people with compulsive disorders that, that, this doesn't exactly apply.
[00:34:54] But as long as, I have the will and the, I guess the, awareness of what is happening. Like I'm able to take a step back and go, okay, I see I'm getting bored with that, but this rabbit hole is really exciting. Then I have the capability to say, but I still have to do this stuff that I don't like, or I still do this stuff.
[00:35:14] That's a little bit more. And what I found is that just understanding that, Is, the first step. And then when you start to keep up the less exciting work while you pursue the rabbit hole. a couple things happen either like number one, you still have the same amount of time in a day.
[00:35:42] So you have to figure out how to spend time on the new stuff. So hopefully you have a support system or you have a family or you have a job where You're able to carve out a little bit of time to, to, get that excitement in your system, which then powers you to do the other stuff. how do you leverage the excitement and then say, okay, now it's time to do the accounts or whatever it is that you don't really love doing.
[00:36:12] so figuring out like how you can carve out enough of a time to get That dose, or that hit of the rabbit hole so that you can then so that you can then run on the treadmill is really important. The other part of it, though, and which has been critical for me, is that I, need to be held accountable by other people.
[00:36:36] if I'm just solo, I can do a lot solo. But when I have other people who are counting on me for whether it's, in my. In the corporate world, whether it's a team or in the, in the solo world, whether it's a client or something, then that changes the perspective on what on that boring work, right?
[00:37:03] Or on the stuff that I'm not too excited about, because then you have, then I'm able to, at least now in my life, uh, at least see that I may not love doing this now, but the end result of that is going to be a very pleased result. Client or a teammate who is going to have a better, who's going to enjoy their life better because I'm able to do something for them or because I'm not going to make their life miserable by not doing the work.
[00:37:32] You know what I mean? there's, a lot of upside. So once you start to think of, at least in my mind, to me, my motive, one of my motivators is absolutely people. If it goes too far, I'm a people pleaser, but I do want the people that I care about to care about me and to be happy. So with that, as a motivator, I'm able to do some of the not so fun stuff because I know a lot of people count on it, right?
[00:38:01] So that's been able. That's been 11 way to handle that. and then the other way to handle it is Again, as a, I don't know how this would work if I was 25, but at 53 or 52, actually, but I'm almost 53. I'm able to say, the less exciting work keeps the roof over my head, helps put my kids in college. So I get a little excited about that a little bit. enough to do it, but, to say that, that I can just switch gears and go, I'm going to, okay, I'm going to be really excited about that is, is self betrayal. There's, I'm not going to love it. I know I'm not going to love it, but I'm, I don't have to hate it either, So it's, it's really a, a matter of mindfulness mindset for sure. and really, being, being aware of, The upsides of everything and you do like positivity is so important in all this as well. It and it is not easy. I mean i'm it's not like I can just say all I'm gonna be positive about this today.
[00:39:18] I have to see the signs first and be like, ah, Okay, now I need to reorient and direct and make things work.
[00:39:24] Ian: So like in those times when the motivation is not there, when the ADHD is at its strongest, you, the anxiety is maybe not kicking in either. and you, need to do this task and it's, Really not exciting Yeah, what are some of the things that you do in those moments?
[00:39:48] Because we all have those difficult the difficult moments. You've mentioned a few things you've mentioned certainly if you have a job where you have bosses and other people who are relying on you that can be part of it But there's been other things that have helped you in those moments yeah Um
[00:40:08] Dan: tools, I think that You That, have been helpful, things, like you have anything ranging from putting it into your calendar, blocking time for it, which, I'm notoriously, wishy washy about, I'll put things in the calendar and then, Even though it's in the calendar, it may not happen.
[00:40:29] That happens sometimes, but not all the time. So it's better to, it's some is better than none, So I, make sure that it's in my calendar to do lists the whole nine yards about like yourself, the time management, make it writing it down. It'll happen. those kinds of tools.
[00:40:48] but, I think. the, like the building the routine, and I do like to use tools to make this happen, is a learned skill, but it's also it's important to get those, not so exciting tasks done. So whether it's my calendar or I figured out a way to, to.
[00:41:15] work it into some of the fun stuff, right? You, say, okay, especially the AI has been really great about this because some of the, work that I, I may not love to do, I'm able to at least kick off with a nice prompt, and then that gets me going, gets the ball rolling.
[00:41:33] And then I'm no longer in this boring kind of, Oh, I have to write a weekly report thing. It's more Oh, wow, check this out. I put all these inputs into the AI and I was able to write this really killer prompt. And yeah, sure. It took me a long, it took probably took me longer to do the prompt and the AI stuff at first than to do the actual report.
[00:41:52] But, that's just this time, next time I'll be able to get done 10 minutes. so it's, so looking for ways to combine that, fun stuff with the boring stuff in, in, in our case, certainly my case, it's not that huge of a stretch because to me, the fun stuff isn't. Like tennis or football. I do going out playing tennis, but it's not Oh gosh, I got to drop all my work and go play tennis to me.
[00:42:20] The fun stuff is usually somewhat related to my work in some way. so finding that connection, and, seeing that, you know what, if I spend a little time on the down the rabbit hole, as long as I have one or two takeaways to bring back to my team or the office, then it keeps Thanks.
[00:42:44] The other stuff more exciting, it's, a matter of finding those connection points and, pushing on them, but also then leveraging like your normal daily kind of tools that we take for granted your to do list, your schedules, your, your, keep things in front of your face always, or else they will go away is my approach.
[00:43:10] Ian: Yeah, I'd love to come back to you on some of those things. Learn a little bit more about your tools. You mentioned prompts and things like that, because I'm really interested in that. That's the kind of thing that I love to do. And I'm totally with you if it's something that's boring, adding a bit of excitement for us, it's playing around with AI creating this amazing prompt.
[00:43:29] At the moment, I'm creating this tool, which will summarize my email and plug it into Notion and Todoist. I spent far too long on creating this thing. And but it's fun and it will hopefully help me to do to actually do the stuff body doubling really helps with me So actually doing the boring stuff while somebody else is on, you know on a zoom call has really helped me as well, but like I wanted To change the subject a little bit and because one of one thing that you were talking about.
[00:44:00] I think yeah, this was when you were in australia because you were talking about that Relationships were a little bit of a struggle, and Part of that was probably cultural. You mean you had to hang out with Brits for an example, for example. that's the worst thing ever. But there were these kind of times when maybe I don't want to put words into your mouth, but you maybe felt misunderstood.
[00:44:22] Are you finding it difficult to, communicate or, be social with these people? So I'm interested, like how have things changed? What, do you think was going on from an ADHD point of view then? And since being diagnosed, Two or three years ago. How has that changed your kind of the way you relate to other people?
[00:44:44] Dan: first of all, it's hard to tell because there's been 10 years or so of, I hope maturity happening at the same time. So like, things, everything, there's so much change happening in parallel to that, going back to the Australia experience. and I, it was interesting because, I had been in Japan for 16 years by that point.
[00:45:07] I had friends from all over the world. Like I wasn't, I was very close with, Japanese people with, my, a couple of my closest friends were Brits. So I was just like, when I went to Australia, I was like, why don't, why are these British people not as cool as my Japan, British people, like that kind of thing.
[00:45:32] not Americans, Brits, the whole routine, because when you're an expat, everybody's. And, I learned so much about, about cultures from around all around the world, from my time in Japan. But that said, I think, in, my time in Australia, I think I just had these assumptions.
[00:45:57] I made these assumptions about how to, how to approach those relationships. And when it didn't, when it wasn't going my way quickly. And this is where I think the ADHD is a problem. When it wasn't going my way as fast as I thought it should, I got disheartened. and the idea of course correcting or changing my behavior, started to really bother me.
[00:46:29] Why should I need to change all this? Why should I be the one who has to suddenly, drink eight pints a night to, to make friends? I'm exaggerating only a little bit. that was the culture there. and then I started to get a little resentful, which, was, I think, which inflamed the depressive part I was at the time and brought that out. but if I would, flashing forward to now, just approaching relationships and approaching people. it's very, different. for sure. first of all, I'm not in Australia anymore, but, building trust, see, let me go back to, or let me just bring this back to one, to a statement.
[00:47:22] I think that, that might make sense for the ADHD person, which is that for an ADHD person, time is not really our friend. it's like impatience or Frustration with the lack of quick results can often then open you up to all kinds of distractions, right? Or you're putting the time in to make something happen, and then you get distracted by something, whether it's socially or economically or work, and I think that understanding of the way that time works has changed, so I am far more willing now to put the time it takes in to build relationships than I was then.
[00:48:16] I also completely changed my outlook on who, on my own role in this whole relationship situation. so I, there have been times in my life and maybe part of my time in Australia was like, this is it really was centered around me. Oh, I, how do I get to be liked? How do I get to be successful? and you become more and more self focused, which is not good for your friend. it's not good for anybody really, but it's not good for the, for the ADHD type of a person, especially an anxiety driven person, because when it doesn't work well quickly, the anxiety starts to ratchet up. so taking that kind of time and saying, look, okay, this is not about me.
[00:49:08] This is about everyone, right? If you're building a relationship, it's about two people, or six people or whatever the relationship might be. And just the idea of giving it time to breathe, has been, It sounds like the simplest thing, but it's such a, it's such a game changer. So now I think whether you say it's more patience or, less, I'm less likely to be distracted by something, or I'm just more likely to do things on somebody else's terms now than I, than on my own terms, build relationships that way because I'm more confident in myself that's helpful.
[00:49:49] Like those are probably why these things happen. But, Until I really understood how my mind works, and I still I'm still exploring that, but how I really until I understood this whole idea of anxiety and ADHD and depression, whatever, all these questions about why, is this person reacting this way?
[00:50:10] Or why are things going this war? Why? I'm not feeling the vibes here. but since understanding that, and Even before I was officially diagnosed, but since understanding I have certain kind of, issues, it's helped a lot to really just, manage that process.
[00:50:28] Ian: Yeah, that awareness that comes from being diagnosed, I think is so helpful. Understanding why certain things can be a problem. And it doesn't mean that everything is going to like, change for the better as soon as you're diagnosed, but you at least know what the problems are, and you can start to Try and find strategies to help and for some that might be medication might be part of that.
[00:50:54] it might be certain kind of therapies. It might just surrounding yourself with a support network. It could be a combination of all of those things. But one thing that you were talking about, like in relationships, it is a two way thing. And I remember I went on this course and part of it was listening, was the technique of actually listening and how many of us actually It doesn't matter whether you have ADHD or not listening is something it's a it's a lost art but I think it's a particular problem for those of us with ADHD.
[00:51:24] It's not that we're not interested in other people but we're part of it is that because of our prefrontal cortex maybe not being quite as developed remembering what we're going to say we have to get in there quick before we forget what we're going to say but you know there's all these things going on our heads so that is really hard but I realized how Often I was interrupting people and that knowledge that, okay, I really need to listen to that person properly.
[00:51:52] Listen, because they are important. that took a lot of time and effort, but I'm not perfect
[00:51:59] Dan: can I,
[00:51:59] Ian: that at all.
[00:52:00] Dan: jump in on the listening piece? Because that's so great. That's key. You're talking about tools. I can't believe I didn't talk about that or didn't bring that up because, that's been the single hardest thing I think, is listening. listening in a way that, that you always hear about, as, a leadership skill or as a relationship building skill, jumping in and, interrupting or getting, having to get your opinion out there. That's me. That, was me for sure. still isn't sometimes, the differences though, that, have like understanding and understanding, I wasn't trying to be rude. I, Could listen and hear. And I earnestly felt that the thing that I had to say, was contributing to the conversation and helpful to the other person.
[00:53:08] Or I felt like I connected that dot now, right? There's all these dots going on in your head, right? Oh, this person said something. I've connected the dot. I've got the information I need, right? I'm not going to cut the person off, but I'm going to say, Hey, Oh. That's great. Check this out and then start to talk about it because I think they are going to be excited about it. But it completely puts the whole idea of active listening off the table and it's, it's, and again, it's not purposeful. I've been, I've absolutely been, in, especially when I was younger, but I've absolutely been in meetings or in, situations where after a meeting, my boss would come to me and say, you need to hold it back. Or did you see that point where you jumped in? Let's, talk about that. I had a boss who was very, particular about these kinds of things at some point, but she did point out to me a lot. how do you think you did in that meeting? And I always hated having meetings about meetings.
[00:54:19] But I still do. But she did point out a few things that now make a lot more sense to me because it's like, Oh, I wasn't trying to step on this person's toes. I have it. I have a very urgent need. Like to express this idea that I think is going to be a benefit to everybody or that solves the problem because the connection has been made.
[00:54:48] So it takes a lot of, focus and certainly a lot of, practice to then become a good listener on top of that net, which, I think that I have become. you listen and, the way that I've been I've gotten around this whole thing is just the simplest thing in the world. Notes, notes, take notes. If I have, a something that has to absolutely get out there, I write it down rather than say it. I, will write it down and sit on my hands if I have to rather than interrupt. And then wait my turn. And that just, even that mantra, wait my turn has been, really, helpful to me.
[00:55:42] And this is, by the way, just. without any, you mentioned medication, right? And we can talk about that as you wish. but without medication, that's sometimes that need to speak is, you can't repress it. It's just, it's going, it's there and it's infuriating. but with the right kind of treatment, sometimes that's one of the things that.
[00:56:13] You can gain some control over to give yourself a little more room to think, I think that's extremely valuable
[00:56:22] Ian: So I was actually I was going to ask you about medication because obviously you went down the I think you mentioned the
[00:56:30] Dan: Adderall originally. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't do anything for me.
[00:56:33] Ian: And I want to also say just I should have said this earlier that obviously if there are any for you watching, listening, anything that we Talk about in this if anything strikes you or you're concerned about anything.
[00:56:45] We're not professionals. So you need to like do seek out Medical professional to help with all of this. This is you know, purely my experience and Dan's experience here And yeah, so I'm just to be honest about this like I haven't gone down the medication route yet I'm on the fence, I'm thinking about it.
[00:57:06] I, and I'm, for whatever reason, I've had this kind of, I don't know what it is, this funny thing about medication. And I'm telling myself at the moment, this is what was going through my mind, and you need to stop having this negative feeling about it. And actually, it could really help. I know a lot of people it's really helped with.
[00:57:22] So I'm interested for you what has been your relationship with the idea of medication. And then the second part of that is. You mentioned that you have ADHD and anxiety, how has medication, what was the approach because I've heard some, doctors will go down the let's treat the anxiety first and then the anxiety and then the ADHD or the other way around or let's tackle them both.
[00:57:48] So I'm just interested in your experience there.
[00:57:50] Dan: and I'm very glad that you, said that we are not medical doctors. Do not, do not take what we say. Like I'm, going to mention probably a few different things. And, I urge anyone watching this or listening to this. To, not necessarily write these things down, but go speak with a psychiatrist, and your general practitioner, your family doctor, whoever it is, a professional, before you even think of any of this stuff, right?
[00:58:19] one, I think one of the biggest mistakes I made was, just that whole online quiz and then getting some nurse practitioner to write me a prescription. I should have known better. Not that it didn't do me any damage. I just it just wasn't really my thing. so the medication route I, again, I was so fed up with this procrastination stuff.
[00:58:39] And I had, a, I had experience with anxiety and anti anxiety medication in the past. when I came back from Australia, I was not medicated. I didn't seek medication. But, later on when I had that, that time, at, I'll just say it at Edelman where I was working at Edelman, it was a, wonderful place, great people, not the right fit for me, but it was not the right fit for me, partly because of the, depression and anxiety and ADHD and also because.
[00:59:19] The stressors were triggering all that, like, crazy. And I keep thinking, had I been medicated, would it have been different? Maybe. but as a result of that's when I really went to, I really went to start to think about maybe there's more to this and maybe there's a chemical imbalance or something.
[00:59:37] And, my doctor said, just try this, see how you go, type of thing. And, Wellbutrin, which, Which is, a common, anti anxiety, slash, it's almost like a, like an all around, all around medication that does treat ADHD in a lot of people. and this was years ago, and I did feel better on the Wellbutrin.
[01:00:11] it's, I think the generic name is bupropion or something, but, I felt a lot better on It, it got me through some, I think, it was an anxiety, it was more for anxiety. And I was in a period of time where I had plenty of reason to be anxious. I didn't, I had, left a job. I was starting something new.
[01:00:33] I was in between things. I did not know where my next I wouldn't say paycheck, but how much money was going to come in the following month. I was trying a couple of different things. I wasn't afraid that I never thought that I was going to starve, but I had a lot of pressure over, over things and, the well being shouldn't definitely helped.
[01:00:55] The doctor said after a while, and I got a new job and things were going great. He's you don't need to take it anymore. So I didn't take it anymore. And again, like I said earlier, when things are going great, when the environment is wonderful, you don't notice necessarily that you need some help, then with the pandemic and everything we're talking to us a few years later.
[01:01:15] that's when I started to think, all right, maybe there's something here. And I had that, that Adderall experience. And like I said, it didn't really do anything for just maybe jittery. It didn't do anything for me, but then I spoke to my real doctor and We dug into everything's going into my life, like everything's going on, right?
[01:01:34] Issues with, it wasn't so much work issues. It was more like, how I'm dealing. I have a daughter who has severe anxiety issues. How am I dealing with her? what's going on? And this, what's going on with your, with this part of your life and et cetera, et cetera. And the doctor, wonderful man, he just dug in and he said, you know what, Dan, you can only be as happy as your least happy child. And that is what made me go to a psychiatrist. Because I wasn't doing my daughter any service. I was doing her great disservice, in fact, by letting my own baggage affect the way that I dealt with her and certainly my wife and everybody like this. And so I went to, I went to get therapy. and again, like I said, a proper psychiatrist and the proper psychiatrist said, okay, after all the intake.
[01:02:30] We're gonna try this and he, took me through a program and it lasted a while just like going, okay, we're gonna start with this one. Let's see how this goes for 30 days. Let's see how this one goes for 30 days. And with a DHD and anxiety, he did say that he's going to look for he was trying to find things that would lean on treating the anxiety, but really deal with anxiety and distract ability were the two things that he was trying to focus on with me and, and then he, He worked out a program and yeah, I guess it took a little adjustment and then on top of that, so now when you need to really focus, if you feel like you're procrastinating too much or you really need to really focus, then we go down the road of okay, you can take an Adderall or something like that, but not Adderall, basically a stimulant, of some kind, but if Adderall didn't do anything for you, then there are a lot of other, a lot of other options out there.
[01:03:35] Okay. That are not necessarily straight up amphetamines, like just different things and, we ended up on a, a, concoct, with, a regimen or routine that I am, I'm, still on now. So I take a, I take something for my, for anxiety, very small, like none of these are massive doses, but like a daily kind of, it's called, in tunive.
[01:04:09] Or guanfacine, and I do that every day, and that's, that, that manages the anxiety, and then there's something called, stratera, which is supposed to be a enabling, focus for an extended period of time. So those two things, are a daily, in the morning, I take those. and then if there is a specifically high pressure project or something due, I do have. a low dose something called Vyvanse. I don't know if you've heard of Vyvanse. it is a, it is another, it is, an Adderall alternative. It's something like that, but I only take those like on an as needed basis and everybody needs to be careful with any of those kind of stimulants because they could be addictive.
[01:05:05] you've, be very careful about that kind of stuff, but this one isn't too bad. and I've. I rarely take them only if I know that I need to be focused and locked out. if I can't, and it's been helpful. now, this concoction or this formula that I'm on has absolutely helped me.
[01:05:28] but in a very, small way, like not, a note, it's not like all of a sudden, Oh gosh, I can focus now, it's more a tendency, like it takes the tendency to, to jump around and to tamped it down a little bit. I definitely feel a lot of the anxiety has, I can deal with that a lot better.
[01:05:55] and that's, that's been working for me. and, take what you will from that. maybe, some people out there be like, Oh, you're on too many medicines or something like this. I don't know. as far as somebody with ADHD, it's still relatively early days. I've only been on this regimen for a year.
[01:06:16] And. It's been, I think it's been very beneficial, certainly have much better relationships with my daughter. and I can, I find myself the biggest benefit and whether it's because of the medicine or something else, but the biggest benefits so far have been that I just don't get angry quickly. I'm able to just pause and think about things. I'm a better listener and maybe that's maturity. Maybe it's medicine. Maybe it's both. I don't know. But as long as the meds don't do any harm, I'm okay with it. and as far as Ian, you said that you have, you have a resistance or you're, you don't want to go down that road.
[01:06:58] it's completely an individual choice. I just was open to it from a site, but as long as it came from a, from a. recommended psychiatrist, like somebody whose business it is to do it and whose life it is to do this and understand these things. I've always been a, a sucker for doctors.
[01:07:20] I suppose I respect them. I like what they have to say. and it's been doing good things for me so far.
[01:07:27] Ian: that's, that's, that's, fantastic. It's really great to, to hear that. And I think we're, as I said, many times on this podcast before, there are as many different people, there is many types of ADHD as there are people with ADHD and you, we all have to Approach it in the way we want to approach it. And we're all on a journey. I think I wanted to approach it more from a, I suppose I would call it a holistic point of view. What are the things I can do? to help and to understand. But I think I'm now at the point when I do want to at least look at the possibility of medication.
[01:08:05] if you're listening and watching, you've got to make your own decision. There's no right or wrong. We're not going to tell you that it's this way or that way.
[01:08:12] Dan: Yeah, definitely don't want to don't want to persuade somebody to go and get medication. It's just right for me, right? if you can, if you could do cognitive behavioral therapy, or you can, figure out your own tricks and tools that get you by and you're fine with it. And then, all power to you it
[01:08:30] Ian: Yeah, and you mentioned so you mentioned like you get angry less often and so that's one thing we haven't talked about and you know what a trait that's quite common with ADHD is emotional dysregulation and sometimes one of the reasons why I started to really look at this is because I would get really angry not angry but frustrated with my kids sometimes and I just had so much guilt because I love my kids.
[01:08:57] I love and I want the best for them, but I just felt so and so that's why I thought I need to do something about this and then realized that actually my son initially is he was highly likely to have ADHD. And then we've since realized that we all have ADHD. So on the whole emotional side of things, what's been your experience with that?
[01:09:14] Dan: first of all, what you just said could have been, you could said Dan instead of Ian, same thing, like frustration with my kids, especially my younger, especially one, like one of them, who my younger daughter who's now 18, she's wonderful and, she's had her struggles.
[01:09:35] She is just, a delightful person, who has, like any teenager had a lot of emotional issues, but also ADHD, other things that are absolutely can be genetic. I felt incredibly guilty, causing that, I felt that I was the cause of all of her issues. and a lot of that was fueled by my own ADHD, but it was also fueled by, emotional, trauma.
[01:10:12] dysregulation. and that's, this is where my doctors helped a lot, right? Dan, you do, you realize that percent you, 90 percent everybody else. So just give yourself permission to not be, not feel guilty, but go see a, therapist was the answer. but, but yes, I had over even now, like occasionally my wife would say, you're raising your voice. Don't yell at me. I'm like, I'm not yelling, but I was yelling in some way, or I would snap. on something, and it happened more and more in stressful times. I guess we all do sometimes, but for me, like I just noticed it more, and my emotional, I guess the diff the difficult emotions for me to regulate were always anger and frustration. it's. In looking back, I can just see many like just many instances where, certainly frustration would be felt at the workplace. I would never get angry at work. But when you say when I say ADHD really never affected my job, never affected my productivity, I don't think. But it probably it's certainly I'm sure it has affected my relationships because of that emotional regulation problems.
[01:11:47] Getting too quickly frustrated with something. Okay, I'm with my boss. This is a safe space. I can vent when maybe it wasn't 100 percent safe to vent, and you frame it up and you give the context. But even then, it might not have been appropriate and in that environment, or maybe I was giving away too much because I would just let the emotions go.
[01:12:10] Ian: Yeah.
[01:12:12] Dan: there's something to be said for compartmentalization. And understanding when to be emotional. but it's much better to regulate those emotions to begin with, And, and that is, that's something that I, think I have to continue to work on and, but I'm, at least I'm aware of it and mindful of it.
[01:12:35] and simple things like, the most important word that my psychiatrist has told me is pause, pause. Just when you're feeling something, just, I don't know. Figure out some way to just take a breath and pause and that changes things a lot.
[01:12:56] Ian: Yeah. that's really good advice. So I As we start to get come to a close with this podcast. I think we could probably talk for another hour on this, sure. so you've mentioned quite a few strategies and tools throughout this podcast. And, that, that, idea of pausing that, that is one of those things.
[01:13:19] One of the thing that I was working with my ADHD coach and a business coach last year was we were coming up with, For me, it was called an emotional toolkit. So if I'm feeling a certain way, like what is it, if I'm feeling like really down on myself and everything's going. Really badly. That's how I'm doing things.
[01:13:38] what do I do in that situation? And I look at the toolkit and it helps me But there are other things that we've talked about ai tools. You've also mentioned people around You've mentioned your doctor so i'd love to hear a little bit more about Some of the things that you've used in your life since being diagnosed that have really helped you in with anxiety with adhd so yeah, just share some of those things with us
[01:14:07] Dan: said just getting into some of the usual time management tools that people have it available to them and it's you know It's those have been very good with with AI I love prompting. I just, took to it like a fish to water or, whatever the proper metaphor is.
[01:14:27] And, it's just a lot of fun. And Working out, like ways to automate some of the things I don't like to do has been a boon, like writing reports, for example, or, curating content for, for, something, or, or summarizing very, long, long documents, I don't who likes to read an annual report.
[01:14:54] I don't. I'm not an analyst. I don't get a thrill out of it. but, that's work, right? That's all work stuff. other. Other tools I think that are important. I just learned very recently something called forensic listening, which has been around. It's not a new thing, but I had a couple folks on my podcast who run a PR consultancy called the convincing company and they what they do is they The, one of the partners name is Chip Massey.
[01:15:26] He's a former FBI agent, and, hostage negotiator and, all this kind of good stuff. And he is an expert interrogator and he talked about forensic listening and that's, we talked about active listening earlier and about taking notes. But now take that to another level where you're listening and you're taking, serious notes but in a methodical way.
[01:15:49] there's a quadrant and you put your notes in different ways, right? It's a tool. And then you listen. After you have that discussion or that meeting, then you go and you read your notes and you reflect on it. in, but not in a woo sort of way. You look at it based on the, quadrant of, Qualities like to figure out what the real underlayed underlying motivators are to the person you were talking to, what's not being said, et cetera.
[01:16:17] you don't have to go that deep with your personal relationships all the time, but having a tool like that really forces you to listen real carefully to things and then go back and see what you've missed. So that's, been very helpful. And again, it's called forensic listening. I don't think it's trademarked by anybody, but if it is, it's probably, it might be by Chip Massey.
[01:16:40] let's see some another, I guess another thing that, that I, that, I do, and this is on the, at the behest of, of my, or as at the suggestion of my psychiatrist is get a hobby, right? it's interesting, a lot of people with a DHD or certainly a lot of creative types of people in our field who may have a DHD 'cause I think there's a lot of us out there who aren't, who are undiagnosed.
[01:17:05] a lot of things that people say is yeah, I, you know what? I have a lot of people that I like, but I don't have any really close friends or I, or all I do is work all the time. my psychiatrist has recommended to just to, get a hobby. And the hobby leads to friends, right? I do have some friends, which is a good thing.
[01:17:24] But, but, I've picked up a hobby or two and the hobbies help a lot with, releasing some of the pent up, distract ability. So get crafty, get, into something. I've. I've gotten into, sadly, it's a little bit of, it could be an expensive hobby at times, but I've really gotten a fascination with, with collecting pocket knives.
[01:17:54] It's the strangest thing. I never thought I would, but, but I really love the sort of technology behind them, the artisanship, the craftsmanship, all these things that I can get into, as well, I was gonna say safely, but they are blade blades, so it's not exactly. But the point is, it's an outlet.
[01:18:16] And as long as as long as I have some, it's fun. And there's a whole community involved with this. And I'm making new connections and learning new things, get crafty. Another thing. Another suggestion was, turn your creativity to something that's like a no pressure craft of some kind.
[01:18:36] I don't know what it is. Weaving, I, I occasionally, and this is the first time I'm ever saying this in public, but I occasionally like to play with paracord and make like lanyards and things like this. Like I must, like people might have done in, and when they were kids. it's just like something to do with your hands and, at the end of the day you have something.
[01:19:00] so those things are tools that help you cope You know, balance out, I think, some of the issues that you might have with ADHD. But it doesn't work for everybody. It's just my, my, my, approach.
[01:19:11] Ian: that's your experience. we are almost out of time. What would be your message for people who've been listening in and, or watching, who maybe they've discovered they have ADHD later on in their life, similar to you and me. And, they're struggling to see it particularly as, when it comes to the whole identity thing.
[01:19:30] So what, would you suggest? What would be your kind of encouragement?
[01:19:34] Dan: it's a, it is not a one size fits all, as you said. And, and you need to find out, first of all, you need to figure out whether or not you are on that, in the ADHD kind of world, are get diagnosed properly? don't, I would say, take the guesswork out of it and just get diagnosed properly.
[01:19:55] You might, maybe there's nothing at all. Maybe you just have slight anxiety. Maybe it's just, there's a environmental issues that are at hand, but go talk to somebody that's this is the number one thing is get professional, professional diagnosis and, but don't let it identify you as the other thing, you've come this far, I can't speak for Children.
[01:20:21] but for adults who have been living with this, understanding it may help you really figure out why you've done a few things in your life or how you might approach things. but I wouldn't let it be you. you're not a D. H. D. Rather, What is it about the ADHD that allows you that kind of makes you behave in certain ways or that gives you the tendency to behave in certain ways?
[01:20:44] And what about it gives you superpowers? That's the last thing I think that I want to leave people with is that, it can, I'm blessed, in some ways in that it's really not debilitating to me, but, and I know it is for some people, but there are some extremely good benefits to having an ADHD mind.
[01:21:07] and many of the creative people that we know have an eight have ADHD or have an ADHD mind that hope that hyper focus, that creativity, that ability to connect dots, the things that you see things that people don't see you have, this kind of most people with ADHD, do have this kind of broad view of everything around them and will notice things that know a bit nobody else does.
[01:21:33] And this is another reason why you have to be talking and interrupting people all the time because you'll see things that people don't see.
[01:21:40] Ian: Yeah,
[01:21:41] Dan: that's a good thing, As long as you can figure out how to channel it. And, don't let it get you down. I think that's where I'm at. But get diagnosed and, figure out a coping mechanism to get under control.
[01:21:55] And then figure out how to leverage it.
[01:21:56] Ian: That's great advice. Thank you so much, Dan. it's been such a privilege, having you on the show, hearing your story. I feel there's so many other things I want to ask you, but I think we do need to finish there. You just have to come back on, the show. it's been great. So like, how can, people, connect with you, find out more about you?
[01:22:15] If anyone's got any questions, you mentioned Instagram is one place, but I'm sure you're at other places too.
[01:22:20] Dan: I Instagram I'm more of a, I'm more of a viewer and, I don't, I'm not very active poster, but, LinkedIn of course is the number one place. Just, look for me, Dan Daniel Nestle. I think there's, there might be one other, Daniel Nestle, but I'm the only one that, that is, you'll know it's me.
[01:22:36] It's, trending Communicator. trending Communicator is my podcast. the Trending Communicator and it's, Available on any, podcast platform, but also trending communicator. com, is this website, and, the socials is pretty much D S nestled D S N E S T L E on all the socials.
[01:22:59] Ian: Awesome. all of those links will be in the show notes. If you just go to smartadhd. me. You can find all of that out and do connect. And if there's anything that has, I don't know, impacted you in this conversation, then do reach out to me or Dan. and we'd obviously love to talk to you. thank you, Dan.
[01:23:18] It's been a real pleasure. And, yeah. thank you so much.
[01:23:22] Dan: Thanks for having me on. This has been great. It's been great to talk about this.
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