Smart ADHD Stories with Lizi Jackson-Barrett

[0:30] Sharing that bald selfie on, on Facebook, I knew I'd feel a little bit less scared doing it, if I asked a couple of friends to be ready to leave me nice comments as soon as I clicked. And then by the third or fourth time I was sharing selfies, I didn't need to anymore because actually

[0:43] Ian: anymore because

[0:44] Lizi: had genuinely grown enough to be able to do it.

[0:46] Ian: Welcome to another Smart ADHD Stories episode. This time I'm joined by the fabulous Lizi Jackson-Barrett who is a confident strategist, best selling author, and multiple TEDx speaker. And her mission is to show what's truly possible when we learn how to stop playing small. Having spent her life subconsciously studying human behavior so that fit in with her peers.

[1:06] Lizi was diagnosed as ADHD at 42 and now knows her neurodivergent brain is what makes her such a successful coach. She's a sought after coach and empowers leaders and entrepreneurs to build and use confidence strategically to achieve greater success. This is, as I said, an ADHD stories episode when I sit down with a successful entrepreneur, business owner, creative, who is navigating the life with ADHD and it's a raw episode. They're unedited. I really enjoyed talking with Lizi. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Let's get on with it now.

[1:39] Hello, I'm Ian Anderson Gray, and this is the smart ADHD podcast.

[1:54] Now if you're a smart, creative entrepreneur or business owner navigating your life with ADHD, This is the podcast for you. Now, I'm no ADHD expert, but I'm eager to share my story on what I've learned by talking with experts, as well as digging into the personal ADHD stories of successful creatives and entrepreneurs.

[2:17] I was diagnosed at age 46, and it answered so many questions in my life. But of course, that was in many ways, only the start of my journey. So let's learn together. Smart stories, smart strategies, smart ADHD.

[2:44] Hello, Lizi. Welcome to Smart ADHD. How are you doing?

[2:48] Lizi: Oh great, thanks. I've been really looking forward to

[2:50] Ian: Yes, it's, I have, so you, reached out to me, was it like, it feels like a couple of months ago. cause I made a big announcement in the Atomicon group or the atomic group. This is our friends, Andrew and Pete, who put on the big Atomicon conference that happens in Newcastle every, And it seems like there's quite a few neurodivergent ADHD people in the Atomic group because like when I

[3:17] Lizi: one or two.

[3:18] Ian: just wanted to, I posted that I was making an announcement about this podcast and just some just to ask people for like thoughts and all that kind of stuff.

[3:27] You reached out to me and then so we had a little chat and then we actually got to meet in person at Atomicon, which was awesome. So for people who haven't come across you, how would you like to just introduce yourself? what is it that you do in your business? And, then what we're going to do is we're going to go back and talk about your journey with ADHD.

[3:46] Lizi: I, I confidence strategist. Essentially, I'm a coach and a speaker and focusing on, for, and business owners. the reason myself a strategist rather than a coach is because I, help people to become more confident, but actually to work on a strategy for really implementing and using confidence in a way that supports them and helps their businesses to grow and helps them to achieve the goals that may feel out of reach.

[4:20] It involves doing things that feel scary. strategy that comes in to the coaching that I do.

[4:27] Ian: that's really interesting. Cause I've been thinking a lot about this in my business. am I a coach? Am I a consultant? I haven't thought about the word strategist. I think for me. I think I'd probably say more of a consultant, but with a bit of coaching in there, but we're a blend. I think a lot in our businesses, I think we can be a blend of a lot of different things.

[4:46] And it sounds like that's the case for you. You're a coach and a strategist, would you say? that's a kind of a combination of those

[4:53] Lizi: it's, it's I, when I qualified as a coach, everyone was calling themselves a coach, so I deliberately want to say that because it, it's ironic spent two years studying for a postgraduate diploma in coaching and I felt that using the word coach almost, What I do, because everyone's a coach.

[5:14] And they're like, strategist sounds cool. But no, everyone's a strategist, so I might have to go back to coach. so whether I'm both one or the other, mix it all up and it's all the same thing, I don't know really.

[5:25] Ian: It's words, semantics, all that kind of stuff. So that's awesome. So that's what you're doing now. Confidence. That's interesting. Cause that's my other podcast is the confident live. Marketing podcasts. It's all about confidence in front of the camera, and the tech and all that kind of stuff.

[5:40] But, this is the smart ADHD podcast. And we, in these episodes, I like to go deep into the journey that successful business owners, entrepreneurs, creatives have had with ADHD. So let's go back. When, did you. Let's not talk about when you were first diagnosed, let's go back further than that.

[6:03] When did you realise that there was something different about you? And did you realise that it was ADHD in those days or did that come much later?

[6:15] Lizi: hard to pinpoint really, because, In some ways, I would say, I can't remember a time that I didn't know that there was something a bit different about me. incidentally, I think often feels or it lands really a negative thing, oh, poor you've spent knowing you're different.

[6:35] And I don't think I experienced it as negative. It was just lots of people like this, and I'm like that. That's okay. And in other ways, maybe not so much, because I think, not quite sure at what point I realized not everybody experiences the world the way that I do. So I think, It was almost a bit of each.

[6:57] It's funny, it's little things. Like I remember, birthday parties at primary school and a song coming on that everybody else knew the words to and knew the actions to. And I literally on the side of the room swaying side to side. A bit embarrassed that I just didn't seem to know the kind of cultural things that were part of being nine, or whatever it was.

[7:25] So I think those little things made me know that there was something a bit different, but I think it was always framed as shyness for me by my family and shyness, I realize now. as long as I can remember, really, but the ADHD part of it didn't actually come until diagnosis because I had, once I started in my adult life to Try to get to grips with a bit more about what is this thing.

[7:53] I recognized autism in myself because world of autism. My son was diagnosed as autistic when he was three. so I'd joined groups of parents of autistic kids and made friends with other autistic parents. So autism was a world I knew and it was,

[8:13] Ian: instincts are right.

[8:14] Lizi: autism I went out to be for just because I thought I'd quite like to know for myself if my instincts are right.

[8:21] And it was at the autism assessment that the assessor said to me, You do know you're off the scale ADHD don't you? And it was this revelation because ADHD had never been part of my world. Autism had been, so I didn't know ADHD. All I knew really was the kind of the stereotype of the little boy running around a classroom.

[8:39] I know much more about it. Certainly didn't know what it looked like in, a woman. said, let's not go straight to diagnosis, actually, that was the first time that it ever occurred to me that ADHD could be part of what was going on for me.

[8:54] Ian: Isn't that interesting? It is often it's the other way round. it's people think they, they look at the ADHD thing and then they cut, then they go down the assessment route. And they're told they have autism as well. And it's what? Really? So it's funny, isn't it? I think it depends on what we're looking at.

[9:16] And going back to when you were at their birthday parties and you were, you didn't realise You didn't know what was happening. And was it like you were on the outside looking in type feeling? And what do you think was going on there? And how did that make you feel?

[9:34] Lizi: I'd missed the memo in a lot of things. I just, I never had, I don't know, the right haircut or the right length of skirt at school or, kinds of things that, is still mystery. I still don't really know how, kids growing up, girls hitting, their Just know what's cool and what's not cool.

[10:02] I did do a lot of neurodivergent, I think girls especially do, which was a lot of observation and watching the way that everyone else did things to try to emulate it. But I think what I missed was visually obvious things. oh, that's how girls do it. How long I'm supposed to wear my skirt if I don't want to look strange.

[10:25] And actually it was more the real detailed nuances of kind of tones of voice or, those of communication styles and practiced from watching others. I think everything else passed me by. best way I can put it was feeling like I'd missed the memo and wondering how everyone else just knew this stuff.

[10:48] Yeah.

[10:49] Ian: explaining it. And I look back, I try not to look back too much, because I'm very much I want to look in the present and forward to the future. But I think it's helpful. to look back at the past and to learn these things. because I think that can help you in the way you are today.

[11:06] But yeah, I think I've, I had those experiences too of, not really, the memo, missing the memo. I think that's a really good way of putting it. okay. So when were you, diagnosed and how did recognizing your neurodiversity, like, how did that change the way you viewed yourself?

[11:26] Both the challenges that you, have, and also the strengths that you have.

[11:31] Lizi: I was diagnosed as, appointment I went to where I was told, actually, you're that was a private assessment for autism that I had taken myself off to, that I must have been in around, And it was at that appointment that the assessor said, if assessed for ADHD, I recommend going down the NHS route if you think you might want to access medication because it's crazy expensive to do it privately.

[12:03] and got myself on a long waiting list and it took maybe about 18 months, I suppose it's not that long compared to what it's like now. I think it was around 2019 when I, diagnosed, as It wasn't a great process because I was seeing, just didn't know what ADHD in women looked like.

[12:26] And they were trying to pin all kinds of other diagnoses on me. and things like that, that, I went and read about. And I thought, it's not a fit. It doesn't, it's not who I am. And, end, psychiatrist who I was seeing for the assessment almost said, you some ADHD medication to try then, shall I?

[12:50] And if it works, then sure, you're right, you've got ADHD. I was like, really? Is that safe? So he sent me off with a week of medication and I took one tablet. I was like, oh, okay, yeah, that confirms it then.

[13:05] Ian: yeah,

[13:06] Lizi: absolutely forgotten what your question was, because there was more to it. That was part one of the question, was when did it happen?

[13:12] was by beginning of 2020, just before the world went crazy, that I realized was.

[13:19] Ian: Yeah, so you had to die. You had to assessment. So the first one. So just for listeners and viewers, so when you went for the autism. Yeah. assessment. they, were you on the, was there anything on the autism part of things? Or did they say, actually, there's, it's not autism at all. This is purely ADHD.

[13:41] And, just tell us like what your thinking was there. Cause going, there thinking that it's highly likely to be autism. And then you find out actually, You're off the charts as you said ADHD. What was that kind of the process? What was going through your head then?

[13:55] Lizi: so yes, I am diagnosed autistic as well. Being told, yes, you're autistic, because it was something I'd suspected about myself for, by probably about four or five years. That just felt really validating. to this assessment thinking, I don't need to do anything with this afterwards, I just think there's real power in knowing who we are and what makes us do the things we do.

[14:21] for say, no, you're absolutely right. Those Facebook groups you're in, you can stay there. It's okay, you belong. having the kind of ADHD thing thrown at me, curveball that I wasn't expecting. And of course I hyper focused down the, research rabbit hole of then reading article after article about what ADHD looks like in women.

[14:46] initially it really threw me. And I was like, I wasn't expecting this. I'm not quite sure what to do with this information. But then the more I read, again, the more validated I felt, and I kept on sending links to articles to my mum and to my husband, going, oh my god, read this is exactly how I feel, this is what happens to me.

[15:04] And it was useful having those articles as a way of framing what I wanted the people I love to know about me, but without necessarily knowing how to find the words for it myself. So being able to just go, read that's was really great. Yeah.

[15:21] Ian: a vocabulary to describe how you feeling and how things are is, I think that's such a liberating experience to have words to describe it. and that understanding is, fantastic. So that's, awesome that you got to that point. Okay. So you, went down the autism route, you were validated with that, but the curve ball was, came at you and, you realize, okay, ADHD as well.

[15:50] Although that was a longer process. Cause you went down the NHS route and for international viewers and listeners, the NHS is the national healthcare system that we have here in the UK. Particularly at the moment, there's still a massive waiting list. I've heard it's either maybe even two or three years for adults and slightly less for children.

[16:08] So it's a bit of a tough one. And that's a lot of people have gone down the private route. that's what I did. But then you are in this situation where okay, if you do go down the medication route, It's expensive. And so you, went down the NHS route and at the end of it, the doctor said, oh, okay, here's the, have the medication.

[16:31] And that was that validation for you. Obviously that, that seemed to help you, didn't it? And so moving forwards now, like from, with all of that knowledge that you had, what, how did that change that knowledge that you have autism and ADHD? How did that change the way you view your challenges?

[16:49] annual strengths.

[16:51] Lizi: I think the is initially it just, and really ongoing basis, it allows me to be kinder to myself. I think I that the ADHD has always had a much bigger impact on my life and my business than autism has. I see just as part of. Who I am and how I show up and ADHD is as well, but that's the part that really I think throws the challenges out for me And so I think the things by this point when I got the diagnosis I've been running my business for about two or three years and really was feeling a bit low about Kind of the lack of progress and not being where I thought I should be.

[17:32] And I'd given myself such a hard time about how I'm rubbish at staying organized and I can't keep control of my appointments and I miss sessions with clients I have idea what goes on with my finances. And I was really gave myself a hard time. diagnosis meant I could immediately be kinder to myself and go, Actually, I'm not useless.

[17:53] I'm not rubbish. It's just not something my brain does well. for me to ask for help with this because it enables me to then do the stuff my brain does do well. two sides same coin really because, yes, it helps me to be kinder to myself about what I can't do. But it also allows me to really focus in on what I am brilliant at and to be able to give myself permission to, I've now got amazing team of VAs that work with me and support me in my business in different ways.

[18:27] And I can have, feel no guilt or shame or anything about just chucking everything at them that don't do well. And I, my business has flown since then and I have because the stuff I do, I do so well and I know my neurodivergent brain is a big part of what enables me to do it so well.

[18:48] So it just helps me to really focus on the bits I really should be doing. Yeah.

[19:00] Ian: we talked a lot about on this podcast before that. there are struggles. There are definite struggles. It's not all a bed of roses. I, wouldn't say ADHD personally. I wouldn't say it's, my superpower, although it can be. And that's what you're saying.

[19:15] Like you have, you've realized the things that you're not good at. And you have then implemented systems and a team around you. They can help you with all the stuff that you're not good at. It would drive you around the bend and you can focus on the stuff that really is your, focusing on the stuff that you are absolutely amazing at.

[19:37] And that's. That's amazing. I think that is one of the biggest gifts, I think, of getting assessed. A lot of people have said to me, I know I'm ADHD, what's the point in getting assessed? And for me, I would never tell anyone to get assessed if they don't want to. But I think for me, I, it was that validation and taking away that guilt and being able to focus on what I'm good at.

[20:03] So I wanted to ask you, so you're not the first person to come on the show who is, has both ADHD and autism.

[20:12] Lizi: interrupt you for one second and be brave here and pull you up on, one which is since I diagnosis, I've done a lot of, understanding about the different use of language. And for me, first language, so being an autistic person, is absolutely my preference over, Language, which is a person with autism or a person who's got autism.

[20:39] So I know this isn't an autism podcast, this is an ADHD podcast, but as we've said a few times now, having I thought I'd just mention to you I'd rather go with I am autistic rather than I've got autism, which made a big difference to me when I understood the differences in that language and how I felt about it.

[20:59] Sorry to interrupt,

[21:00] Ian: no, that's

[21:00] Lizi: let you carry on.

[21:01] Ian: No, that's fine. And this, and this is a struggle because of course, if you, for someone like me, who I get very, flustered and confused over the right things to say. So apologies if I get things wrong because I'm probably going to, and,

[21:20] but but do you know what? I think that it's so important that we feel able to say, actually I'd rather use this language for me,

[21:27] Lizi: to not keep, we live in we, where everyone's just so angry at everyone all the time for making a mistake or getting it wrong or not knowing something.

[21:36] I don't mind at all that you said, with autism, because I didn't tell you I prefer something different. I don't you forget that I said that in five minutes and, so. So,

[21:51] Ian: ADHD, I'm always wanting to do the right thing, I think. And so, just

[21:56] since we've, since I don't want to be triggering any RSD in you by saying that.

[22:01] to go over that again, I'm just interested because that's a really interesting thing.

[22:04] And I haven't thought about that at all. And I think the use of language is really important. so so tell me a little bit more about the difference between those different ways of calling someone. calling you like an autistic person or someone who has autism. So what are the differences in the language and how does that make you feel?

[22:24] what's the difference between those different ways of, describing,

[22:28] Lizi: So I grew up, I don't think we're very dissimilar in age, and I grew up in a time when person first language around any kind of discussion about disability was absolutely the thing you were supposed to do. You were supposed to see the person first. So it's a person with autism, a person with whatever it is.

[22:48] When I had my diagnosis, especially with autism, and I was thinking I've got autism, I'm a person with autism, and something about it made me feel a bit icky, and a bit, that way makes it feel like there's something inherently wrong with it, or that it's you'd say person with diabetes, or with asthma, like a kind of illness.

[23:13] And I, when I was looking again, Facebook groups, doing reading around it, and I saw more and more autistic adults talking about, no, I prefer identity first language, I haven't got autism. it's not, accessory I can carry around and put down, or an illness I can take medication for.

[23:31] I am an autistic person. I analogy, often used by, autistic people. People who are members of the LGBTQ plus community, who say I'm not a person with gayness, it's not a separate part of my identity, I am a gay person. And that doesn't mean that being gay is necessarily relevant in everything I do, but it doesn't mean But it still means everything I do, gay person.

[23:58] And so that really resonated when I heard that analogy, that, autistic isn't always relevant or important in what I'm doing, but I still do everything as an autistic person. And it really felt, it made me feel so much better about being autistic. Owning it and talking about it. If I said to you I've got autism, it still makes me feel icky.

[24:20] If I say to you I'm an autistic person, I feel really good about owning that. it's to do with ADHD, but I do say, I don't, I still don't really say I've got ADHD. I describe myself as an autistic ADHD er. which again just makes me feel

[24:37] Ian: and

[24:37] Lizi: happier and more positive about the way I'm saying

[24:40] Ian: it's really fascinating, and I, I mean I'll be totally honest, I've not thought about this at all, and I think, I dunno, I've, so I suppose it comes down to identity, doesn't it?

[24:52] so is ADHD part of my identity and I, think we're all different, aren't we? I, suppose I would personally say I'm a person and I happen to have ADHD and that's the way I I'm happy with that. I, dunno whether I would feel comfortable in saying I'm an ADHD person because like my ADHD. I feel like it doesn't necessarily define me. It is part of who I am and, but, I'm gonna have to think about that. You've made me

[25:21] Lizi: Yeah, do.

[25:22] Ian: So I'm going to have a

[25:24] Lizi: looking forward to a future episode where you come back to it and tell us what you've decided on.

[25:30] Ian: it's a really interesting thing. I've thought a lot about, what is our identity and, there's obviously lots of different aspects of us, but anyway, we, could go down a big rabbit hole with that, but I wanted to come back to you

[25:43] Lizi: I've taken on such a tangent and you were asking me a very important question before I interrupted you.

[25:47] Ian: No, that's okay. That's

[25:48] Lizi: You're not remembering what it was.

[25:50] Ian: So it was about, autism and ADHD and how that, I suppose how, that manifests itself if that's the right phraseology in your life. for people who don't know, much about autism or maybe much about ADHD, just be interested in your experience there.

[26:09] Lizi: Do you know, I find that such a hard question to answer a lot of the time, especially around autism. Because, I don't know what it's like to not be autistic, so it's hard for me to have that comparison. I think, probably the most obvious way for me, is sometimes challenges with communication, of, sometimes I'll think my husband isn't in a bad mood with me, when actually, that's not what his face is saying at all.

[26:38] He's thinking about what to cook for dinner. a lot of questions about how someone feels to try to make sure I'm getting it right, and I'm not misinterpreting. Which I'm sure, as a wife and as a mum, is so annoying. As a coach, it's really useful. To say, I can see your face is doing this, let me check what that means.

[27:01] that's probably the biggest challenge, is And I have been told occasionally that I, my voice doesn't do what I think it's doing. So somebody might say, sounded sarcastic or I sounded grumpy when I didn't think that's what I was doing at all. And I was thought my voice was perfectly normal.

[27:20] So that's something that I'm quite conscious of. I think actually in terms of being a coach, it's the autism that I think means, I'm a really brilliant coach, and it's funny because I feel alright saying it because I can pin that on the autism rather than because I'm just showing off. Because typically autistic people, we're really detail oriented.

[27:46] We might miss the big picture, but we see all the little details. And if I'm having a conversation with a client, I will always notice maybe just the one word they said or the one eye movement that they did in a sort of involuntary way you know. That ends up being the thing that unlocks everything that we need to move forwards.

[28:07] think, is the kind of, like the kind of superpower narrative because I think it can our challenges, but I think superpower that comes with being autistic for me professionally. And ADHD is almost the opposite. ADHD is the big picture, and not necessarily always noticing the details, because I'm so focused on the big, at the end that I don't want to see all the little bits in between.

[28:31] Which actually works really well as coaching as well, because let's not lose sight of this big exciting thing that we are aiming for, ultimately, once we've got what your question was, I've forgotten it, but I may or may not have answered it,

[28:45] Ian: no you have answered it. It's really interesting because we're all different. And there are as many types of ADHD as there are people. And I think Like for me, I, think, I, do go down the details route sometimes, but that's because I probably go down the hyper focus route.

[29:03] And also it's sometimes, a way of me dealing with anxiety because I think anxiety can play a lot of a big role in all of this as well. And so I, will go down the hyper detail route. in what I do too, which is really interesting. yeah,

[29:21] Lizi: then there are all sorts of other kind of elements that I don't know if it is ADHD or autism or both, because I think they can be seen. So things like my time blindness is, it's for me. It's, and I've only realized quite recently how bad my sense of object permanence is. it's a bit of a joke in my family that whenever I go shopping, there'll always be a thing that for about a month I just keep buying because I forget I've already bought it and it's in the cupboard.

[29:47] and eventually I'll finally go, No, we've got six jars of Marmite. I don't need Marmite. However, pretty sure we needed more tomato puree and get home and find it. I tomato puree the last six shops as well. think those things, I think, cross various neurodivergent, kind of brains.

[30:07] Ian: yeah,

[30:08] Lizi: tricky.

[30:09] Ian: definitely. so going, back, to maybe your teenage years. how, what was the, transition, as you were going through life, were there any moments where ADHD, Looking back now, can it played a role? How was how were you at school? And then beyond school? What was that transition like?

[30:30] And what have you learned today from all of that?

[30:32] Lizi: Looking back at my old school reports, which I did, a I was diagnosed, because I was curious to see What teachers said about me, in school. If they all said the same thing, Lizi is capable of so much, but she needs to concentrate, focus, stop messing around, and it's what they all said.

[30:51] And, it's hard to not look back at that through the lens of, What would it have been like if actually people had known? if support rather than have been told off for when I, about or trying to make everyone laugh. Because that was my, that is what I did a lot, I was a class joker a lot of the time.

[31:11] After I was diagnosed, I did go through a period of feeling quite angry about, I'd replay sorts of very specific stories that had happened, school, sometimes, being told off my parents, and thinking, that was so unfair. I knew it was unfair, I could feel it was, and nobody was listening.

[31:30] the flip side of it was, it's a, I'm my mid forties, and in those days,

[31:35] Ian: it,

[31:36] Lizi: We didn't the same understanding around neurodivergence. I would have certainly gone to a different school than the one I did go to. May have been better, may have been worse. Certainly would have been different.

[31:46] And there's no way of knowing. So I managed to stop myself going down that kind of path.

[31:53] Ian: what

[31:54] Lizi: that, pit of what if after a while to think, actually, don't know what if, who knows, maybe my life would be worse than it is now if, diagnosis and people had known,

[32:03] Ian: a was really

[32:05] Lizi: I was really conscious quite a lot through, especially through my teenage years of,

[32:09] Ian: do, but really

[32:11] Lizi: Looking for approval, like I guess most teenagers do, but really starting to feel that RSD, the Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, that a lot of us experience when an argument with a friend would be something that would hit so hard and I'd feel this kind of real physical reaction to worrying that a friend was upset with me or those kinds of things.

[32:37] of high emotion, but it is for every teenager, right? So it's hard to separate out how much of that was because of my neurodivergence. so I think I was also really conscious of wanting to have a boyfriend for that kind of validation that came with somebody's chosen me, and that felt like quite an important thing I got fixated on through a lot of my teenage years, was asking all the boys out, didn't really care who as long as someone said yes, and it made me go, yeah, look, boyfriend, that means I'm important and someone chose me.

[33:14] Yeah, that's some of overriding memories of school.

[33:17] Ian: Yeah, that's interesting about going, wanting that validation from having a boyfriend. But then how did that kind of work with the RSD, the rejection sensitivity disorder? Because if you got, rejected by somebody that, that was certainly my, thing. And I, got so, caught up with that, that I just.

[33:35] almost, I just couldn't ask any girls out because like I was so worried about what they'd say. So yeah, looking back on those days, I'd be interested, like, how, did that, all those different aspects of ADHD, like we've talked about RSD, we've not really talked about emotional dysregulation, but we've, you've talked about emotions, it was a highly emotional time.

[33:56] And there were those different traits, that we tend to think about with ADHD. how did they work with each other or work against each other and manifest themselves back in those days?

[34:09] Lizi: I think I probably did what a lot of, kids do. And again, I know it particularly happens with girls, which is, my socks off when I was at school, mask down when I was home. And that's, I think, when the emotional dysregulation really came into force. So there are a lot of, doors and sobbing on my bed and writing furiously in a diary and all of those things, at I think that with the asking boys out and the RSD, I think what I did as a kind of defense mechanism was almost turn it into this kind of silly part of Lizi's persona. This is what Lizi does, she asks boys out all the time, that meant, it when they rejected me because, oh, ha that's what I do, I'll move on to the next one.

[35:05] as a yeah, way of protecting myself from, From those feelings, if I could convince myself, and from letting other people think I've been rejected, because of the game. That's just what I do, is what I told myself.

[35:17] Ian: It's really interesting, isn't it? I think we often use humor. I wouldn't, wasn't the class clown or anything, but I've always used. and embrace the silly side of me. and I, dunno, I think that's a good thing. and unless it is involved in the whole masking thing too much. And if you mask yourself too much, you're hiding yourself and it can lead to things like burnout.

[35:44] We, did you get any kind of form of burnout from. From this. how did, that you said you did a lot of kind of masking? How did that what happened there?

[35:54] Lizi: I'm not aware of having experienced burnout, but I think I wouldn't have necessarily I don't think I've ever really seen it like that or framed it like that, and I probably would have just been encouraged to just push I went to, public school that you had to sit exams for and was very expensive for my parents to send me to, and that was the kind of environment I was in.

[36:18] it's a family of kind of really high achievers, So I think that, I had a very loving and supportive and warm upbringing. In the kind of bubbling away underneath was always this kind of push towards sort of academic excellence and doing the best I could do. So I think, anyone would have recognized in me anything that was necessarily burnout, but I think when I was struggling with kind of the emotional stuff and all of that, it would have been,

[36:51] just pushed through and keep going and do what you're here to do.

[36:58] that, I can remember once I got to uni, I ended up doing most of my third year of uni from home because I was, quite ill with kind of other stuff I had going on health wise. But I would imagine that kind contributed to it with the kind of or something like that.

[37:17] And being incredibly well supported by my mum who helped me through that last year and helped me get my work done from home and submitted assignments remotely and actually in hindsight getting away from the chaos of uni and the noise and the people and the overstimulation and just being at the quiet, in the quiet of home with mum and dad, exactly what I needed and, To end excelling, I ended up first, which I don't think I would have achieved if I'd stayed in that environment, which was really overwhelming.

[37:48] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. And this, is, I hear this kind of story a lot that those of us, who push ourselves, we get to a point where we need to retreat in a way from all that stimulation and be being a calm. situation. And so you've got a first, this is one thing, this is one of the big myths.

[38:11] I think people assume that if you have ADHD, that's, I don't know whether they assume this, but there is this kind of thing that you can't be that smart or you're going to struggle with things. and schools

[38:22] Lizi: not only everyday people, sorry to interrupt you, but the doctor who was assessing me, that awful psychiatrist, told me I couldn't possibly have ADHD because I'd, into a public school through exams and then ended up with a first from uni and that I can't, this is a psychiatrist who assesses ADHD.

[38:40] Ian: yeah.

[38:40] No. And that's what, yeah, I was actually going to come on to that, but that's one of the big problems. I think when you get, if you go down the diagnosis route, if you want to see whether you have. ADHD if they see that you've somehow got your life together, that you've done well academically.

[38:58] you can't have ADHD then, because that's their what they think. And obviously that wasn't the case for you. So do, how do you think that, how did, so difficult, I'm trying to think the best way of wording this. how the fact that you were smart at school and at uni and you got the first, how did, do you see that, how, was ADHD working with or against that side of things?

[39:28] Because sometimes being intelligent and having ADHD, it is not necessarily the best combination. they can, it can almost make, the ADHD. more debilitating. That's been my experience. what's been your experience there?

[39:45] Lizi: yeah, I think you're right. I think that when you are, yeah, smart or have that kind of, that type of intelligence that gets us those sorts of grades, and clearly we know there's all kinds of different ways of being intelligent, but specifically that kind of intelligence, I think it can make it more challenging.

[40:05] I think we can potentially end up really, Overcomplicating every thought and everything that we do real kind of analysis of Why am I doing this? And how do I do it? And why am I doing it like that? And Again, I suppose like I said earlier, I don't know what it's like to not be autistic I don't know what it's like to not have the intelligence that I've got so I can't you know are fine think that I know that guess like most of us who are ADHD is, I've got a brain that just doesn't stop.

[40:44] know to what extent, intellectualizing the processes and the of the analysis of myself, prevalent in most of us or not, I don't know. Okay.

[40:58] Ian: we can only we only know what it's like for ourselves. we can so

[41:03] Lizi: something you do?

[41:04] Ian: yeah, I definitely I overthink a lot. I overanalyze overthink and that can be quite debilitating. So I'll end up just Not doing stuff. And from a business point of view, that's, my first course that I launched that at the same time as moving house because and I knew that I had to do it because people were really asking for it.

[41:25] And so I launched it. Even though I was busy trying to sort the house out and that course did really, well. But then when I'd launched the next course, I had a mixture of imposter syndrome because thinking, that was just a fluke. I was thinking that I was over, over engineering it and analyzing it.

[41:44] And that course was a complete flop because I think, and I spent so long trying to do it and trying to make it perfect. And, I think sometimes it can be so debilitating that you just don't get stuff done. And I've realized that about myself that I just, it's, it, in one sense, it's my over, it's my superpower.

[42:02] And when I've written articles that have gone viral, it's because I've gone down this rabbit hole and I've thought about it really intelligently and gone into loads of details. And that's been really, that's been why it's gone so well, but equally, that's also been what they, that's caused lots of problems in my business as well.

[42:21] So knowing that I think is a good thing. And you can, like you said, you've got a team around you that can help you. And I'm going to ask you a little bit more about some of the stuff that you've done to help like maybe with coaching and you mentioned medication and things like that. but yeah, so, that's, really interesting.

[42:43] So let's talk about strategies and tools that you've found helpful in managing ADHD symptoms. What, have you found over the years that's really helped when it comes to managing ADHD?

[43:00] Lizi: big things that come to mind as you say that. The first one is medication, which for me has been a complete game changer. And it's not a kind of a fix or suddenly I'm normal. the issues are still always going to be there. I think if anything, the thing that medication does most for me is it helps with that kind of inertia that can come with ADHD.

[43:25] That kind of, your brain's telling you all the things you've got to do and it feels so overwhelming you don't even know where to start and you end up sitting on the sofa all day feeling angrier and angrier with yourself that you're not just getting up and getting on with some work. for me the medication has helped with that hugely.

[43:43] thing is relating to what we were just saying really about me going home from uni and doing really well in that environment. I think probably a year or so ago in my business, I was noticing that periodically every few months I was approaching what was starting to feel like burnout and just needing to stop and shut myself away from everyone.

[44:09] to my VA, I think. I think we need to be booking time off in my diary every few months to let me reset and we did it for a little while and those time off periods would come up and I wouldn't really know what to do with myself and I'd end up, Canva and making a whole load of, socials or something and I realized actually it's not What time off that I need is time away from people.

[44:36] And so what I have started implementing, which I've been doing for well over a year now, is what I call people free weeks, where about every six to eight weeks in my diary it's blocked out as a PFW, and it's a week where I have no Zooms, no meetings, no clients, no networking. I just sit quietly and work at home for a week.

[44:57] I also do it every week on a Monday. It's a people free day, mostly. it's exactly what I need to be able to, and, regulate and then show up again the next week ready to, talk and do all of those other things. So that's been huge for me, being able to realize That's what I need, and then just make the decision to do it.

[45:25] Ian: so can

[45:26] Lizi: then the third thing is the team that I have. yeah, go back to that, and then we'll talk about the team.

[45:31] Ian: love to hear about your team, but I just want that. I think I love the idea of a people free day. And it's not because you don't like people, you, I think you mentioned that you're an extrovert. Would you say,

[45:41] Lizi: I I said, it, I thought, why did I say that? I'm an extroverted introvert. okay. my energy and recharge from being by myself, but I love being around people and having those kind of big interactions.

[45:54] Ian: no, that's really interesting. And I think I would say for me, I'm definitely an introvert in the sense that I get my energy from being by myself. But if I'm by myself too often, I will get depressed. And I think because I'm very much a verbal thinker, I love bouncing ideas off people. And so working for yourself is a blessing and a curse in a way I think it's managing that and that's what interested me about what you said there about that people free day or people free week.

[46:23] So it's managing your energy levels. Do you, is this, an introverted thing, an ADHD thing, an autism thing. I'm just interested, what, is it about, why do you need to have this people free day and week? Because I, know that I need that. I probably in my, I'm not so I have my Friday off and, I try and have my Friday off at least.

[46:48] And I, I try and have a lighter day on Mondays away from meetings and things like that. So maybe I'm inadvertently doing a people free system. But I'm just interested in your thinking behind all of this.

[47:00] Lizi: it's interesting because that's exactly what I do. I have Fridays off, and Monday is my, people day. realized that weekends are full of peopling. peopling that has to be done. And, whilst most of it is nice peopling, Actually, by Monday, I'm ready to knock people. how of it is down to being an introvert, ADHD, all of these things, I think it's impossible to say, really.

[47:29] think that the introversion, which, you know, the, which I know will know, is often misinterpreted as being shy, and it's not. It's about where your energy comes from, and it coming from time by myself. That has got to be a big part of it. Probably more the autistic part of me, really experiences quite a lot of overload and things like that, that I manage pretty well, but it's quite nice to give myself a break from it, now and then.

[48:01] Ian: Yeah.

[48:04] Lizi: I love interactions and coaching and networking and all of those things, but, I do find it really tiring, especially when I'm, at all, but sometimes when I'm at a big networking thing, I have a bit of alter ego who I bring out. I call her hands, Lizi, where all of me that I want to bring to the forefront need to do for successful networking.

[48:35] tiring person to be. So then I can put her back in a box and have a day where I'm just Lizzy nice.

[48:43] Ian: That's really interesting. you wouldn't say that person that you're, what did you say? Alter ego. That's not, it's not that person isn't you, it's just different aspects of you, would you say? Is that the right way of putting it?

[48:55] Lizi: Absolutely that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, we all do We all have a telephone voice or a way that we present ourselves on a podcast. And it's just that a little bit, especially, for I've got a business networking group that I host and as the host of the group, I feel like there's a little element of it.

[49:14] That's a bit of a performance, which doesn't mean in a kind of inauthentic way. It's still very much me, but I'm there and people are looking to me to, Lead, and to be funny, and to set the and all of those things. comes Jazz Hands Lizi, and she does a great job. But, then, she can go away for a while.

[49:34] Ian: yeah, I think that and think that's it's this podcast and the other podcast that I do and live shows Like I'm think I am still me, but I put more energy into and it's like I trained as a professional singer So like when I was on stage, I was me, but I was performing there was more energy into it and I call this What do I call this?

[49:55] My brain's gone. It's called, authentic, heightened authenticity. That's it. So it's, it, you're still being authentic. You're still being you, but it's just a little bit more energy that goes into it. And if I was going to meet you for a coffee and I started speaking to you in my, live video voice, like, hello, Lizi, how are you doing today?

[50:15] you'd be a bit please get away from me, you mad

[50:18] Lizi: That sounds really fun. Please, let's do that.

[50:21] Ian: So yeah, I hope you're impressed. I've remembered the third thing that we're going to lean into, I've actually remembered, which is team. So you so tell us a bit more about how your team has helped.

[50:31] Lizi: So the team, is by Access to Work, which I know is something that you've, shared spoken about before, and, medication, it was a game changer for me, and I wish I had, discovered that it existed earlier. have had an Access to Work grant now for, just years, so I've just had to renew, and luckily they did renew it for a further three years.

[50:59] pays for, hours a month of, support from VAs who do all the things that I needed someone to do for me. And sometimes there's a bit of a process and journey in finding the right people who understand the way that your brain works and the things that they need you to do. And even I've discovered people who know how to phrase Requests for me or things that I have to do and ways of saying to Lizi Don't forget you need to do that in a way that doesn't trigger RSD and makes me go.

[51:35] Yep. Thank you for the reminder So ever since I've had those people managing my diary and my email inbox and my invoicing and everything else my has, whole new life where, I'm, I said earlier, doing the things I'm really good at.

[51:55] Ian: yeah, I think that's awesome. And so just a reminder, if you're listening, watching and you're outside the UK, the access to work grant is a government scheme that, that helps and supports, those with disabilities, including neurodiverse, like ADHD, autism, and it can help with, with VAs who can help with the admin side of things.

[52:18] But obviously if you're outside of the UK, have a look at in your country. I'm not familiar with how it is in other countries, but do check that out because it is worth looking into. and also last episode, I interviewed Sarah Rock from Viva. And that was all about, how you can use, how, VAs can really help those of us with ADHD.

[52:40] And I think it sounds like for you, Lizi, that, it's something that Sarah was talking about is the advantage in having a VA who understands neurodiversity and who understands where you're coming from. And this is something I've worked with my VA that, what I realized, and this, it was actually Sarah from last week, that mentioned this, Sometimes there are days when I just go off the grid and I don't even realize I've gone off the grid.

[53:04] Like I've just shut down, put the shutters down. I'm not really talking to anyone. It's probably, I'm probably having an inadvertent people free day, And

[53:12] Lizi: Yes.

[53:13] Ian: like with my VAs, what do they do in that situation? Do they, how often do they bug me? And I've said, actually, please do bug me.

[53:22] But, and I will just tell you if I'm having one of those days. So how, has that worked for you? That, how, with your team, do they understand the way your brain works and how have you trained them up in order to work with you? Cause we're all different. so so how's that work for you?

[53:42] Lizi: I there hasn't been any kind of conscious training of how we're going to work together, but, three on, I think they really get me. And, suppose we have a bit of a shorthand now of how we communicate with each other. So we have a kind of a WhatsApp group just for me and my and anything I need to ask goes in there.

[54:07] Anything they need to tell me goes in there as well. So we all can just go in and, have look when we've got the time and we're able to, and I guess if something more urgent comes up, then they will bug me and push me and remind me to. urgent, they know I'll come to it when I, when I'm to, either time wise or emotional bandwidth wise.

[54:34] it's quite a good way of just all of us collecting the messages we have for each other to then go and dip in and pick up it seems work quite well for us and, really good at, I who does the most for me and she works really hard for me and I messaged her just last week and said I'm overwhelmed this week.

[54:57] There's a lot I'm trying to manage with the kids in school and they're both coming up GCSEs and it's a lot So I just want you to know I'm feeling really overwhelmed this week And it felt really good just to tell her that so she knew Don't bother Lizi with anything that isn't urgent right now.

[55:16] And she also then came back to me and said, how help? What can we do with this? And, having ask me that meant I could say, Do you know what? I think I would really value some help in just collecting all of the different deadlines that kids have got at school for coursework and awards evenings and all these dates that are coming at me.

[55:36] and finding a way just to put them together, and maybe if you could just remind me, don't forget that this bit of coursework's got to be done, so you need to check the kids have done it. So it was quite nice just having her say, what can we do? And then I realised actually there is something, I don't need to just manage this by myself.

[55:51] Ian: That's brilliant that you thought that. Cause I think, so this is one thing I didn't realize I was going to ask you this, but since we're talking about this, it's something that I've always been thinking about in terms of working with my team. What are the ways that your team help you? what are the kind of some of the specific things you mentioned, like diary management, and you mentioned, you've got a few different VAs, because I think that's one thing that some people think that you just get one VA and they can do everything.

[56:19] And obviously all VAs are different. They have different specialties. so, I suppose, yeah, I'm interested, like how, they help you, but also like. How did you find the letting go side of things? Because that's the struggle sometimes for me, oh my goodness, like working out what they, how they can help me, but also letting go.

[56:38] So how's that work for you?

[56:40] Lizi: To be honest, the letting go was never, I was like, take it, just take it. to know. VAs mainly who do of the work for me. We divide it up by, manages things like, My email inbox and my diary, those kind of things that just need to come up in the diary that I need to be reminded of and, or things I've had, a new client starting with me next week and Vicky knows that if the person hasn't sent their, to me.

[57:16] Yeah, three days beforehand. She knows she's gonna chase them. So I don't have to log on and go. Where's the person's questionnaire? Oh, no, they didn't send it. Oh, no. So it's those kind of real Administrative things that I just And then I've got Jackie who does Most hours for me and really I guess what she does is take on Probably more of a project manager kind of role in my business, being one of those projects.

[57:48] So she manages, she's managing my energy for me a bit as well. So she messaged me last week and said, just to flag up for you, in your diary over the next two weeks. So just watch out. Let me know if you're starting to feel a bit, Let's make sure the following week there's not too much.

[58:05] And having someone who's just got that overview, who knows me well enough to know I am just going to keep piling things in the diary and not really thinking about it. is invaluable. But then just things like, one of my newest things that I have been doing is I ran my first ever retreat a few months ago, a two day retreat.

[58:26] somebody else, Jackie, to find a great venue and to liaise with the venue and to invoicing and the contracts and, got to do is turn up and be fabulous.

[58:38] Ian: Yeah,

[58:39] Lizi: but, and with me to the retreat so she could make sure that lunch was going to be served at the right time and, all of different things as well.

[58:51] think if I tried to make a list of everything they all do between them, I struggle to think of everything because there are so many different tasks they take on. Which I think comes with time, doesn't it? It's

[59:02] Ian: it

[59:02] Lizi: that, handing over, actually, it's just, osmosis, really.

[59:08] They've come business and bit by bit they've seen what needs doing and they've picked it up and it's, really well.

[59:16] Ian: I think you have to be patient with this. this is one thing I realized that working with a VI, it's not going to solve all your problems. And you will have to work with them over time. And then some things You'll add some tasks you'll add later over time. How did you, so one thing that a lot of people struggle with is, okay, they can see the type, they can see how a VA could really help them, but who, how do you find a VA?

[59:40] And I was, very blessed because I, my Tonya, my VA who works at who's in the US. I met her at a conference. She was highly recommended to me We became friends and then she gently encouraged me that maybe I needed a VA and so that's how that started And then I was again, I was a recommendation here in the UK But it can be really difficult because finding the right VA is also hard So how what was that process for you?

[0:05] And how did you? Because it sounds you've got like an amazing team. They obviously work really well with you. They understand you. and that's quite tricky to find people who really are good to work with.

[0:17] Lizi: Yeah, I think for me it worked really well. person that I didn't mention, is who really, she runs a VA, where, she of associate VAs that work with her. And actually Lindsey is the VA that kind of officially is my VA. And she then matches her clients to, she's got working with her to try and match up, Your needs and your personality with the people she's got, which, I such a great model and a great way of doing it.

[0:49] one way to do it is to find a VA who has that kind of model going on for them where, it's like a VA matchmaking service, for want a better word. But, that, I think, really, the most important thing is that you like each other and that you feel like when you're having those days that we've described where we go off radar or we're overstretched or we're just not doing it, that we'll be all right with that person badgering us a little bit, that we feel like they're going to have the right way of just helping to bring out the best in us, more important than anything else because of course every VA has got a different skill set and if you specifically need someone who's great at a certain task or technology.

[1:38] Then clearly you need to take that into account as well. But for me, that's what matters most, is that these are people who I really like and who, it feels like they care about me doing well and that they care about the role they play in helping me do well.

[1:55] Ian: Yeah, no, that's I think that's really great advice. I wanted to ask you about misconceptions, stigmas, because I think we've all got those. when I, When I got diagnosed, I, when we talked, we were talking about this before we started recording about, I don't think we quite used the phrase oversharing, but quite a lot of us, can be, we're an open book and I find it difficult.

[2:22] I sometimes would like. I've just been diagnosed with ADHD and I was saying to myself, Ian, shut up. Stop it. Stop talking. and sometimes people would say to me, Oh, really? You're not ADHD. what's all that about? And like surely everyone has ADHD. And I've found some of those kind of comments quite difficult at the start.

[2:41] And I've tried to understand where other people are coming from, because. We're all on the journey. And I remember when I was teaching singing and I taught somebody with ADHD and I thought, Oh, ADHD, it's just like a made up thing. And so I've, it's come back to bite me.

[2:58] These kind of things that I used to say in the past, and now people are almost saying it to me. And I thought, Yeah, okay, fair enough. I was there once. So What have been the stigmas, misconceptions that people have said and how have you addressed those and how have you dealt with those things in your journey?

[3:15] Lizi: interesting one. the one that, annoys me and gets me the most is the, a little bit autistic and everyone's got ADHD. spectrum. that, A, it's not true. It's just not true. You're either neurodivergent or you're neurotypical.

[3:40] You can't be a little bit of one and a little bit, you're one I think. More importantly, I think it really invalidates the challenges that, we've talked today and that we know people have because, everyone's that. It's immediately so the stuff that you find hard, I'm not interested in because everyone finds it hard.

[4:06] again that I love that I use now, that, you might hate crowds and sometimes get a little bit, noise and, But that doesn't make you, necessarily, Autistic or ADHD, just like sometimes having swollen ankles and a backache doesn't make you a little bit pregnant.

[4:31] So you're either pregnant or you're not pregnant. You can have some traits of pregnancy, but that doesn't make you pregnant. and I that as an analogy because you can certainly, of course most people have got some kind of traits, that matched up with some kind of neurodivergence.

[4:47] That doesn't mean you are necessarily ADHD or autistic. And that actually, if you've got enough traits of pregnancy, then maybe you actually are pregnant and you need to go and take a pregnancy test. And, yeah, all that. ADHD because I have blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[5:06] you are ADHD then.

[5:08] Ian: Yeah,

[5:09] Lizi: think,

[5:10] Ian: No, I think that's really, I think that's a really helpful analogy. So but I think we need to, yeah, I think it's important to, we're not going, people are going to say things to us that we find annoying or just maybe even trigger us. And so I think we, it's good to be prepared with a few analogies.

[5:30] I think that's a really helpful one.

[5:32] Lizi: Yeah.

[5:32] Ian: like I want to do, so come back to, so you, to your life and, so you're talking about your, teens and your twenties, let's talk about like how it was with your work side of things and that transition to what you're doing today, which is confidence. I'm sure that didn't come out of the blue.

[5:53] there was a transition that I'm really interested in how that happened. And how ADHD kind of played a part in that.

[5:59] Lizi: My first career was, I was a school teacher. I come from a of teachers on my mum's side, and it just felt part of my DNA, really. so I was teaching, I was a PSHE, so all the fun stuff with sex and drugs and all of that stuff that is just A lot of teachers are really scared to have those conversations.

[6:25] I'm like, yeah, bring it on. Give me the difficult conversations. I love it. One of the things I was really good at as a teacher was building great relationships with teenagers and having really meaningful, authentic relationships that meant partly because of that and partly because of the subject I taught I was often the teacher that kids would come to talk through problems and I didn't know then that what I was doing was coaching because I was talking through and asking them questions to help them find a What solution are we looking for and what are you going to do to get there?

[7:02] a huge part of being a teacher was a for me because the workload is just beyond immense. The organizational skills you need to have to stay on top of, marking tracking progress and parents evenings and, and navigating staffroom politics and, all of things, just that I, ultimately I was failing despite the fact that there was a lot in the that I was great at.

[7:35] Ian: so

[7:37] Lizi: clearly I know now why I was failing and finding it so hard, but at the time I didn't know.

[7:42] Ian: so I was trying to

[7:43] Lizi: to of. my colleagues find out how much I was struggling or how behind I was in my marking and, clearly just builds up and makes it even worse.

[7:52] So that was how I started out in my career.

[7:56] Ian: and then

[7:57] Lizi: in 2012 I'd been teaching by that point for about eight years. But,

[8:03] Ian: was a big

[8:03] Lizi: shift around that time. When, I first marriage, which had been, a marriage, and my twins were three and my son had just been diagnosed as autistic and there was a lot to get our heads around with that.

[8:16] And my health was in a bad way,

[8:20] Ian: largely because

[8:20] Lizi: of, the of my marriage and work. So I ended up having to walk away from that career and survive on a combination of benefits and the generosity of my amazing parents.

[8:32] Ian: parents, And

[8:34] Lizi: I think that's probably, looking back on it, the time when I really did hit burnout, but I didn't know that's what it was at the time.

[8:43] Ian: I am so

[8:45] Lizi: thankful that I have parents who were both able and willing to step in take over paying my mortgage for me,

[8:53] Ian: for,

[8:55] Lizi: I really needed it. And then it got to the point where

[9:00] Ian: my, mum said, well look,

[9:01] Lizi: said, know need to think about the fact that we're going to be retiring soon and we won't be able to necessarily keep doing this.

[9:06] It's probably time for you to think about getting back into the world of work. And initially I was like, no, please don't make me, and it wasn't because I was lazy or scared of work, but because I was so scared of getting back into that, I guess that burnout or that kind of pit of judgment and feeling like I'd failed and that I just wasn't good enough.

[9:25] Ian: good when

[9:27] Lizi: when I decided was no way I was going back into teaching. I wanted to have, a direction. And the thing I loved most about being a teacher were those conversations that I was having with kids who needed to find

[9:40] Ian: to find

[9:40] Lizi: to challenges they were going through.

[9:43] and

[9:43] Ian: I decided that

[9:44] Lizi: decided that was when I was going to retrain as a coach. And,

[9:49] Ian: I guess

[9:50] Lizi: I am. an academic person, and I always have been, and that's what I've been put with. It's really important to me that I did that really properly, so I went and did a postgraduate diploma at,

[10:01] Ian: year

[10:02] Lizi: East London in, coaching, and that was where I was.

[10:09] But in terms of how I came to the confidence side of things,

[10:11] Ian: confidence um,

[10:13] Lizi: I started out.

[10:15] Ian: started out. It

[10:16] Lizi: was soon after I qualified as a coach

[10:19] Ian: A

[10:20] Lizi: A couple of months later, I got remarried to my lovely husband, who I'm with now. And a couple of months after that, I turned 40. Within ready for my 40th birthday party, I found a bald patch.

[10:34] And within two months, I'd lost all of my hair to alopecia. clearly the whole story of that is probably a story for another time in another podcast. But essentially, I had to go on my own confidence journey of me, really exploring what does this mean for me, to show up in the world as a bald woman and be okay with that and feel good about how I look.

[10:54] Ian: and about? that my know that my neurodivergence helped me to process that and to think about it in completely different ways to the way that I think a lot of,

[11:05] lot of women

[11:06] Lizi: women who have alopecia. End up kind of feeling and I end up just putting all of that together, my own journey, my confidence, that super analysis of ourselves that we talked about earlier kicked in when I thought, how did that happen?

[11:20] How did I go from being too scared to put the bins out without a hat on to standing on stage in front of a thousand people giving a talk and forgetting I look different from anyone else? what was that process? And. That kind of analytical part came in where I realized that there is a process actually, and I think it's a process that I can teach and that other people can apply to, uh, life life or their business.

[11:44] But it's got nothing to do with hair loss or appearance. It's a system that I think might work for everyone, and it turns out it does. It can be used, more selling yourself in selling yourself and your business, or charging your worth, or, we that we know we should be doing or we want to do.

[12:03] Ian: to do. So yeah,

[12:04] Lizi: yeah, that's happened.

[12:07] Um, the ADHD side of things with the emotional, potential emotional dysregulation.

[12:16] Ian: going through alopecia would test most people, but I can imagine with ADHD, The depths of those emotions would, I would have thought would be exacerbated. So I'd be interested, what, how did it not help with ADHD? And, you've mentioned how it helped in the sense that You found another way.

[12:41] You found like with the kind of, what do you call it? Is it divergent? Yeah, divergent thinking, it enabled you to think, Ah, like this, there is, there's a, there is a way through this. So presume, but presumably there were dark times as well. what, was that process of moving from that darkness to what ended up being like this amazing journey for you?

[13:01] Lizi: yeah, absolutely. I was, I went to a very dark place for a while. it was all very, I think partly the problem was it was so sudden and unexpected. I had no time to get used to this idea. come into with the kind of change that is so out of our control. It's hard for anyone, but I think especially, as a person, I really was desperate to try to take back some kind of control over what was happening to me.

[13:30] And there was no control to be had. I was, felt who was along for the ride with all these crazy things that were happening to my body and my appearance and there was nothing I could do about it. I just had to wait to see where stopped and where I could get off.

[13:49] I think, The big fear for me was really around the way other people would perceive me, what people might say about me, what mums would be whispering on the other side of the playground at school pick up. that is a big part of that kind of It's not even RSD, is it?

[14:06] It's to,

[14:09] Ian: Yeah.

[14:16] Lizi: go into the playground and I see some people over there whispering? happened, but I think I was feeling the RSD for things that hadn't happened.

[14:27] really tough for, two or three months. I was low. but then I think it's that ADHD trait that certainly I have and I know lots of us have of really what you touched on just a few minutes ago about Kind of what we might call oversharing or being open or wearing a heart on our sleeve, whatever it is that I knew that I just didn't want to feel like it was this secret I was carrying.

[14:58] So I had initially gone out and bought a wig that was as close to my natural hair as I could find and was feeling very conspicuous under this wig. And holding this knowledge and this secret in me the whole time was awful and exhausting. And I was constantly worried about being a found out. And I thought I could just share, I could just tell the world and then I wouldn't have this secret anymore because it's not a secret.

[15:22] So I made a decision I was going to not do it by telling person and I thought, I'm just gonna put it on Facebook. I'm gonna do a board selfie and put it on Facebook. I. I, of friends and said, please, can you be ready to say some nice things in the comments because I'm absolutely terrified.

[15:41] shared the photo, and I did actually that thing that we talked about earlier around trying to use humour as a because the caption I wrote was, having no hair is when you put your make up on, you don't know where your face ends. then did the photo because I didn't want the caption to say anything.

[16:01] I've lost all my hair and I'm terrified and I feel awful and please don't me and please be nice. I wanted to go, no, fine, I'm joking. felt like such a relief to just put it out there. and that was just the start really of how it all started to come together and feel better.

[16:23] And then I think that real kind of over analyzing and over was just a sort of. Trying to make sense of everything and make everything feel ultra rational means that now, genuinely, I think hair is the weirdest, most ridiculous thing in the world. if aliens came and said, What is this weird dead stuff that you've got growing out your head that you will spend all this money trying to change the shape of it and the color of it?

[16:50] It just feels so ridiculous to me.

[16:52] Ian: for people watching,

[16:53] Lizi: Hair's so pointless and stupid. I know I don't think that perspective on hair if I was neurotypical, I'm sure.

[17:01] Ian: with confidence. it may be with a similar thing. there may be something about their body that they, don't like. They're worried about being judged. They might not like the way they sound. Maybe they're worried about telling people they have ADHD. What, would you say, to, to those people and what would be, what's, what would be one, maybe one little bit of strategy that you would teach them to help them on their journey with, confidence?

[17:31] Not really. The important question

[17:33] Lizi: I think that confidence is very much,

[17:36] Ian: bit less scared

[17:37] Lizi: linked to, couple of, I think fear is often the, kind opposite. And when we're not feeling confident, it's because we're scared. of doing something or scared that something might happen or that someone might think something. And question to ask yourself is, what would help me to feel a little bit less scared?

[17:58] So for me, sharing that bald selfie on, on Facebook, I knew I'd feel a little bit less scared doing it, if I asked a couple of friends to be ready to leave me nice comments as soon as I clicked. Post and so it doesn't fix everything. I was still terrified, but it just gave me enough of a confidence boost to do the thing.

[18:20] And then the next time I did it, I, again, I said that I'm going to do it again. Can you leave some nice comments again, please. And then by the third or fourth time I was sharing selfies, I didn't need to anymore because actually my,

[18:32] Ian: anymore because actually

[18:33] Lizi: had genuinely grown enough to be able to do it. So that is a really great starting point is to think.

[18:39] What would make a difference? What would make me feel less scared or more confident? And what do I need to do to make that happen?

[18:47] Ian: And it might,

[18:48] Lizi: Often it's about asking somebody for something, asking a friend to leave a comment, or some time, or whatever it is. Sometimes it's not, sometimes it might be. I would be more confident, live on Instagram, I knew that I looked great because the lighting was fantastic.

[19:05] So what do you need to do about it? actually, I'm going to, I'm um, buy light and read an article on how to set it up so it helps me look good. so look good. that's place to start, I think, is, with that question. Ha,

[19:19] Ian: that's awesome. we are out of time. we've I feel we've only just scratched the surface.

[19:25] There's so many more things that we could talk about, but I think we probably should end it there. So how can, how can, so if people have been touched, I'm sure people have been by what you've said and affected by what you've said. first of all, the thing I will say is, and I should have said this at the beginning, but if you are struggling with anything, we're not, medical professionals, so do seek professional medical advice, that's really important that you do that.

[19:50] Don't cope, try and cope alone. But if you have been affected by anything in this episode and you want to, reach out to either me or Lizi, please do. How can people do that with you, Lizi? Tell us where you tend to hang out on the socials and on the interwebs. ha

[20:05] Lizi: because old, Facebook is my favourite place to be. am also, I do have a presence on LinkedIn and Instagram. on all those platforms. it's just full name with no spaces, no dashes, no punctuation, just Lizi Jackson Barrett. is Lizijacksonbarrett.

[20:24] com Like pretty much. Every ADHD entrepreneur I know, it needs an update. It's currently her, under construction. But who knows, maybe by the time, hear this, I'll have got it under control. But you still can find me there as a way of contacting me, even if it hasn't got all the information that you might want just yet.

[20:44] Ian: that's awesome. And yeah, and if you want to work with Lizi, you can just reach out to her and all the links will be in the show notes. So if you go to smartadhd. me, you can find that just find this episode there. thank you so much. It's been awesome to have you on the show to hear your story.

[20:59] Thank you. It's

[21:00] Lizi: Thanks for

[21:01] Ian: a huge, privilege. I feel like I'm very much on a journey. I'm not, as I keep on saying this podcast, I'm not an expert. I'm still learning things. I still get things wrong. I've learned a lot from this episode, which is awesome. Thank you so much. It's been really great.

[21:15] ​